CIA documents supported Susan Rice’s description of Benghazi attacks

[Cancel 2016.2]

Everything you are arguing for SF would have increased the potential for casualties. It would not guarantee that Woods and Doherty would have survived. Again, the information indicates that Woods and Doherty died after SEVERAL hours of quiet in which it seemed everything was under control. Woods disobeyed an order that would have likely prevented his death. It is unlcear if Doherty did the same.

Either way, a forceful response does not seem like it would have been all that effective and would certainly offered another avenue for you guys to criticize. There is no point in pretending it would have satisfied you or anyone on the right. The very thought of it is absurd.

Lets carry your 'logic' further... in your little world, you would not send more firefighters into a building when help was needed due to 'risk for more casualties'.

You are completely ignoring the fact that it could also have REDUCED the casualties. As for your ignorant 'several hours of quiet' bullshit... that is a time to beef up security. It gives you the perfect opportunity to bring in reinforcements. The embassy had just been attacked, they had no idea if the ambassador was alive or dead. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe they were thinking 'well gee, there has been a couple hours where they haven't attacked so it must be over so no need to worry about another attack'???

So now you are blaming Woods for his own death. How many would have died if he had not disobeyed the order? Again, you pretend things could only have gotten worse with additional help.

 

[Phantasmal]

1) No, I am not forgetting
2) Do you honestly think it would have taken more than a phone call? To a government that proclaims it is friendly to us, a government that we just got done helping oust their dictator? The troops could have been on the way while it was being worked out.
3) Again, for the 10000000000000th time, they would have come from the nearest base... Sicily... about 480 miles away. They could have been in there within 2-3 hours.

4) One thing for you to note... we had at least one drone flying overhead during the attack... if we had that, I think it very likely that it would not have been very hard to get fighter coverage and/or troops in there.

It is all just speculation, on your part, on my part. It is very unfortunate what happened. I am of the opinion we have no business having personnel in these areas for just this reason, it is risky, we are putting people at risk. I do feel that Ovama will take steps to make sure it doesnt happen, again, but there is no guarantees. I do not like our presence in these countries, but I do not doubt that Obama wishes things were different and will take steps to protect those who serve under him.

 

[Phantasmal]

Lets carry your 'logic' further... in your little world, you would not send more firefighters into a building when help was needed due to 'risk for more casualties'.

You are completely ignoring the fact that it could also have REDUCED the casualties. As for your ignorant 'several hours of quiet' bullshit... that is a time to beef up security. It gives you the perfect opportunity to bring in reinforcements. The embassy had just been attacked, they had no idea if the ambassador was alive or dead. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe they were thinking 'well gee, there has been a couple hours where they haven't attacked so it must be over so no need to worry about another attack'???

So now you are blaming Woods for his own death. How many would have died if he had not disobeyed the order? Again, you pretend things could only have gotten worse with additional help.

There also could have been the risk of killing innocents, which would have angered the population and possibly caused more violence.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Dearest Tom...

1) I did not say they could put an Apache or Blackhawk in a C130. I said they could send a C130 for support.... if you are not capable of comprehension, then you really shouldn't get pissy when I get condescending.

2) Again, I stated they could use Apache's for support. I then stated they could use Spec Ops without the Apaches.

3) I was listing options Tom. Is it the best option... I don't know. But it is a better option to have that damn thing flying overhead than to not send anything.

4) Dearest Tom... they have it because it provides OPTIONS. They are not always going to have a BASE from which to leave that has the requirements needed. But in this case, the Spec Ops are STATIONED in Sicily. I would put the odds pretty high that the base they are stationed at is capable. Was Benghazi? Maybe not... which again dearest little Tom is why I listed multiple OPTIONS of what could be sent.

It is easy to be an armchair general as you have just demonstrated.

 

[Timshel]

Lets carry your 'logic' further... in your little world, you would not send more firefighters into a building when help was needed due to 'risk for more casualties'.

You are completely ignoring the fact that it could also have REDUCED the casualties. As for your ignorant 'several hours of quiet' bullshit... that is a time to beef up security. It gives you the perfect opportunity to bring in reinforcements. The embassy had just been attacked, they had no idea if the ambassador was alive or dead. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe they were thinking 'well gee, there has been a couple hours where they haven't attacked so it must be over so no need to worry about another attack'???

So now you are blaming Woods for his own death. How many would have died if he had not disobeyed the order? Again, you pretend things could only have gotten worse with additional help.

I did not blame Woods for anything. FUCK YOU! You are the only one assigning blame.

No, in my world, I don't rely on hindsight , ignoring the facts that don't fit my storyline and speculative bullshit to pretend that I could have managed it all so much better. I assume they were telling the truth that they felt it unwise to deploy forces without knowing the situation. YOU assume they are lying based on partisanship and nothing more. I don't assume things could have only gotten worse. I am not assuming anything. I am addressing the facts and your fairytales.

They WERE sending in a special operations team during the quiet that did not get there in time. It was not nearly as easy to move forces there as YOU pretend.

I don't pretend a God damn thing. That's for losers like you.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

There also could have been the risk of killing innocents, which would have angered the population and possibly caused more violence.

So again... when Americans are in harms way we are to do nothing according to you and String? Don't send help... something bad might happen???

Again... yes, things might have gone worse... but his line of thinking ignores the fact that they might also have gotten better as a result of the help. It is speculation either way... but his way basically says to every American at every embassy... you are on your own if something goes wrong. You will not be getting back up. Who would actually work in that environment? How many ambassadors would simply say 'f no' to taking a position in a potential hot spot?

 

[zappasguitar]

You are a fool, you are one, who no matter what this administration did, you would be on the bitching side. You fool no one. You hate Obama and any decision his administration would make would be the wrong one. Just admit it and move on.

He's full of shit as usual.

He's got NOTHING to back up his bullshit except the same unfounded claims that his puppet masters have been spreading over the airwaves for days.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

It is easy to be an armchair general as you have just demonstrated.

LMAO... I listed options Tom... I stated I didn't know which was the best. But doing nothing was not the right call. Not when Americans were in harms way. Not when American soil was under attack.

You just want to whine and cry because I didn't say 'gee, Tom, you are right, it is fanciful to think we might have actually used the military for support'. You pretended that help wasn't available and you got called out for it. Go suck BP's teat

 

[blackascoal]

Sorry, but that is not a pre-approved piece by the Dem fantasy patrol. You therefore cannot use it as evidence that the streets were blocked off and heavy weapons used from the start.

Not interested in what democrats think about this.

As you can see from all their frantic flailing around, they are operating on low information and even lower intelligence. To suggest the attack was spontaneous at this point is mindboggling, it's moronic.

No amount of truth will faze them.

It is absolutely amazing listening to democrats making the same arguments they argued against when Bush was in office.

 

[cancel2 2022]

LMAO... I listed options Tom... I stated I didn't know which was the best. But doing nothing was not the right call. Not when Americans were in harms way. Not when American soil was under attack.

You just want to whine and cry because I didn't say 'gee, Tom, you are right, it is fanciful to think we might have actually used the military for support'. You pretended that help wasn't available and you got called out for it. Go suck BP's teat

No, I wanted you to give me some realistic options not bullshit like sending C-130 gunships to lay waste to a crowded city area. You still haven't explained how you could get Special Ops from Sicily to Benghazi in 2-3 hours unless it would be without helicopter support, in other words a suicide mission. I always know when you are cornered because you start on about BP and you accuse Darla of being evasive, which she is by the way.

 

[NOVA]

You are a fool, you are one, who no matter what this administration did, you would be on the bitching side. You fool no one. You hate Obama and any decision his administration would make would be the wrong one. Just admit it and move on.

Typical of a clown like you....don't address anything I post, just attack me personally....don't you get tired of being such a predictable ass....?

 

[Timshel]

So again... when Americans are in harms way we are to do nothing according to you and String? Don't send help... something bad might happen???

Again... yes, things might have gone worse... but his line of thinking ignores the fact that they might also have gotten better as a result of the help. It is speculation either way... but his way basically says to every American at every embassy... you are on your own if something goes wrong. You will not be getting back up. Who would actually work in that environment? How many ambassadors would simply say 'f no' to taking a position in a potential hot spot?

Dude, go fuck yourself. It's not my line of reasoning. I was not there. I don't expect I should have been there or pretend that I could have handled it so much better. You bac and bravo can get around in a circle jerk and pretend that you could centrally manage the whole thing if you want. I tend to believe in trusting others to handle their part of the load and that includes trusting military experts that I would not even pretend to be able to second guess.

As a citizen I feel empowered to have some small role in determining when we begin military actions. I will let the experts and elected officials handle the details of that. I don't believe it worthwhile to get involved as it is not something that is best handled by a democratic process. There is NO REASON to believe they behaved in a negligent manner here or covered anything up.

Our ambassador's know the dangers. Many of them have stated that security at the embassies is too tight. But you will ignore them as just puppets of the administration or for some other reason and claim to know better. I don't believe you do know better. Go play your video game.

 

[NOVA]

He's full of shit as usual.

He's got NOTHING to back up his bullshit except the same unfounded claims that his puppet masters have been spreading over the airwaves for days.

Here is the post Rana was referring for...

This the first time I've ever seen Americans being under attack in real time and where any help of ANY kind was refused because the rescuers MIGHT be in some danger themselves ?.......freakin' firefighters and policemen do it every day.....an asshole mountain climber or sinking sail boat gets more attention than that....
We both know you inane excuses are bullshit to cover Obamas ass....
This is the first time Americans and American military under attack were told "fuck you, you're on your own"....we don't even leave our dead troops lay in
the battlefield....we rescue their dead bodies under fire rather than leave them....

Show us the unfounded claims...pinhead

 

[Phantasmal]

Not interested in what democrats think about this.

As you can see from all their frantic flailing around, they are operating on low information and even lower intelligence. To suggest the attack was spontaneous at this point is mindboggling, it's moronic.

No amount of truth will faze them.

It is absolutely amazing listening to democrats making the same arguments they argued against when Bush was in office.

Well, BAC, some of us are just morons! Will always be morons to those who do not think the way that we do. I have criticism of this administration, of the Pentagon, of the State Dept. but it seems that the attack could have been planned, but those who acted got an opportunity when the violence in Cairo erupted. Until those that planned it are caught and questioned we don't know all the facts ns probably not even then.

It could be that the US government is once again covering up, it is most likely, but I am free to speculate just as you are for the truth will never be known, as in all things political.

The Republicans are just as guilty, they have the nerve to criticize after the likes of the Bush administration and its fumbling.

I think we are arguing the wrong point. The issue should be, why are we there in the first place and why do we remain? Why do Americans risk their lives in these areas?

The answer, as always or usually is oil, black gold, Texas tea, greed and corruption.

$75 billion spent on intelligence, money being laundered in Iraq, US backed troops getting ready to invade Malia, Netenyahu getting crazy in Israel. There are so many potential threats that will make Libya pale in comparison, but who cares, who pays attention. We all just sit around waiting to assign blame but don't give a rats ass about what is being done in our names till it goes wrong!

 

[zappasguitar]

Here is the post Rana was referring for...




Show us the unfounded claims...pinhead

Unfounded claims:

1...Show everyone how YOU got to watch the attacks in real time as you claimed.

2...show me the actual quote where our leaders told the Ambassador and his security "fuck you, you're on your own" as you claimed.

3...Prove that no US soldier on any battlefield in any war has NEVER been left behind as you claimed.

 

[Phantasmal]

Typical of a clown like you....don't address anything I post, just attack me personally....don't you get tired of being such a predictable ass....?

Well, you get what you give...

 

[blackascoal]

Well, BAC, some of us are just morons! Will always be morons to those who do not think the way that we do. I have criticism of this administration, of the Pentagon, of the State Dept. but it seems that the attack could have been planned, but those who acted got an opportunity when the violence in Cairo erupted. Until those that planned it are caught and questioned we don't know all the facts ns probably not even then.

It could be that the US government is once again covering up, it is most likely, but I am free to speculate just as you are for the truth will never be known, as in all things political.

The Republicans are just as guilty, they have the nerve to criticize after the likes of the Bush administration and its fumbling.

I think we are arguing the wrong point. The issue should be, why are we there in the first place and why do we remain? Why do Americans risk their lives in these areas?

The answer, as always or usually is oil, black gold, Texas tea, greed and corruption.

$75 billion spent on intelligence, money being laundered in Iraq, US backed troops getting ready to invade Malia, Netenyahu getting crazy in Israel. There are so many potential threats that will make Libya pale in comparison, but who cares, who pays attention. We all just sit around waitinadding assign blame but don't give a rats ass about what is being done in our names till it goes wrong!

MUCH respect for you my friend, and my criticisms are not personal. But to suggest that this attack was spontaneous is quite ridiculous. Road blocks and armed men do not point to any evidence that this was spontaneous. They attacked and destroyed a CIA safe house as well as the rented villas that many are calling a 'consulate' and 'embassy.' It was neither.

For me, this has absolutely nothing to do with politics and everything to do with a crime against humanity.

Ask yourself why didn't your news sources tell you that millions of Libyans stood in protest against US/NATO bombing and FOR Gaddafi?

Why didn't they tell you and the rest of America that? They didn't tell you because your information is controlled.

The Libyan people DID NOT want their country bombed and destroyed, and they DID NOT want their leader removed. I can prove that to you in less than 35 seconds.

If you step away from the politics, the truth of the Libyan disaster is glaringly obvious.

I'm not trying to defend republicans or Israel. I'm speaking the absolute truth .. and a truth good sister, that you will not be able to challenge.

This isn't personal, but it is about human life.

35 seconds that should give you pause.

 

[Phantasmal]

So again... when Americans are in harms way we are to do nothing according to you and String? Don't send help... something bad might happen???

Again... yes, things might have gone worse... but his line of thinking ignores the fact that they might also have gotten better as a result of the help. It is speculation either way... but his way basically says to every American at every embassy... you are on your own if something goes wrong. You will not be getting back up. Who would actually work in that environment? How many ambassadors would simply say 'f no' to taking a position in a potential hot spot?

Embassy are basically on their own. Ambassadors fully realize the risks involved. Rescuing personnel needs to be weighed against all factors, including aftermath. I am not denying mistakes were made, but I think our initial mistakes was having personnel in Libya.

Yeah, I know you like the go in, guns all blazing mentality, but sometimes that is just not the best course of action, it is most unfortunate.

I will repeat, I do not think we belong in the region. Period.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Well, BAC, some of us are just morons! Will always be morons to those who do not think the way that we do. I have criticism of this administration, of the Pentagon, of the State Dept. but it seems that the attack could have been planned, but those who acted got an opportunity when the violence in Cairo erupted. Until those that planned it are caught and questioned we don't know all the facts ns probably not even then.

It could be that the US government is once again covering up, it is most likely, but I am free to speculate just as you are for the truth will never be known, as in all things political.

The Republicans are just as guilty, they have the nerve to criticize after the likes of the Bush administration and its fumbling.

I think we are arguing the wrong point. The issue should be, why are we there in the first place and why do we remain? Why do Americans risk their lives in these areas?

The answer, as always or usually is oil, black gold, Texas tea, greed and corruption.

$75 billion spent on intelligence, money being laundered in Iraq, US backed troops getting ready to invade Malia, Netenyahu getting crazy in Israel. There are so many potential threats that will make Libya pale in comparison, but who cares, who pays attention. We all just sit around waiting to assign blame but don't give a rats ass about what is being done in our names till it goes wrong!

That's ridiculous, the US in common with most countries maintains embassies in many countries not just those that are 100% safe. Do you think the US is the only country with embassies in Libya? Doesn't oil pay your bills, by the way?

http://embassy.goabroad.com/embassies-in/Libya#

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I have enjoyed this thread. And not only because I discovered yet another thing that SF is an expert in...does it never end with him? And what is the most knowledgeable man in the world doing posting here so much? Surely his unmatched expertise in....well, in everything, is needed in far more important quarters.

No, what has amused me far more is that for years I have maintained the Republicans would have impeached Al GOre had over 3,000 Americans died on his watch in an attack on the United States.

I love being right.