CIA documents supported Susan Rice’s description of Benghazi attacks

Aoxomoxoa said:
I didn't say Apaches, they are helicopter gunships and totally inappropriate for that type of mission, I said Blackhawks which are designed for the purpose. So OK they use a C130 which of course is always ready at five minutes notice, by the way, a C-130 isn't big enough to carry helicopters for that you need a C5 Galaxy which needs a 2 mile runway to take off.
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1) The 130 is a gun ship designed for ground attack... it would have been used instead of choppers
2) Either Blackhawk or Apache would need the transport... tell us, do you think a spec ops team is going to be located on a base that doesn't have the ability to transport choppers?
3) Also... you can send the spec ops teams in without the choppers
 
Superfreak said:
Are you on your phone... because that was funny...
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Just having trouble with my spelling today, I hurt my back, trying to move a huge piece of furniture by myself. The muscle relaxants are good and my brain is slow this morning. I kept looking at both words knowing they werent right, corrected it, looked at it again, corrected it and thought, that isn't right, either! Goofy!
 
Rana said:
You do not have any concerns for another black hawk down? I can only imagine the outrage if troops had been sent in and they had been killed. It is a situation where we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. There is always risk in having personnel in highly volatile areas.
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Yes, just as I would have concerns for the Americans on the ground in harms way. Yes, there is always risk to having personnel in such areas, but that is yet another reason why we should be questioning the lack of security for the embassy. Instead, the media is largely ignoring that.
 
Rana said:
Just having trouble with my spelling today, I hurt my back, trying to move a huge piece of furniture by myself. The muscle relaxants are good and my brain is slow this morning. I kept looking at both words knowing they werent right, corrected it, looked at it again, corrected it and thought, that isn't right, either! Goofy!
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yeah... thought it might be something like that. Your mind really really wanted to spell the two words in similar fashion

First embassador and embassy, then ambassador and ambassy. LOL...
 
Superfreak said:
1) The 130 is a gun ship designed for ground attack... it would have been used instead of choppers
2) Either Blackhawk or Apache would need the transport... tell us, do you think a spec ops team is going to be located on a base that doesn't have the ability to transport choppers?
3) Also... you can send the spec ops teams in without the choppers
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1) Oh so you wanted to send a C130, at night to blast away at all and sundry!! Yet when Obama uses drones you have a hissy fit and say it's murder.
2) I already told you that you would need a C5 Galaxy to get helicopters there to obviate the need for in-flight refuelling of the helicopters.
3) How many operations have been conducted in the last 30 odd years without helicopters? What happens if they get in the shit and have to get out quick? Do they call a taxi to the airport? You do know that the airport is 20 kms from Benghazi, don't you?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
The bullshit theory about sending F-16s from Italy is just total fanciful nonsense. They bellyache over drones in Pakistan so they would have a field day with jets strafing and dropping bombs in a built up area. How long would it have taken to send helicopters with special forces over 500 miles? Helicopters like Blackhawks only have a range of 300 miles so they would require refuelling in mid air over the Mediterranean at night. Refuelling helicopters is rather more tricky than refuelling fixed wing aircraft. Apart from anything else, the helicopter has to be travelling very fast (for a helicopter) to keep up whilst the tanker is flying at near stall speeds.

I also observe how those that choose to make this political issue have ignored totally the reaction of Libyans to the events. I quote from Wiki.
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What the hell do you know about where and what assets were available to assist those being attacked....
Obama refuses to answer any questions that might make him look as worse than he does.
No one said anything about sending ground troops in to help, other than what was there....

Were the drones flying overhead armed...??? were more available ?.....why weren't they used ?
the attack lasted well over 7 hours....was there a C130 gunship available ?
Where and how far was the carrier offshore ?

We don't drop bombs on just any neighborhood under the plane, ass.....we can put a bomb up you ass without hitting your pockets .....
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
1) Oh so you wanted to send a C130, at night to blast away at all and sundry!! Yet when Obama uses drones you have a hissy fit and say it's murder.
2) I already told you that you would need a C5 Galaxy to get helicopters there to obviate the need for in-flight refuelling of the helicopters.
3) How many operations have been conducted in the last 30 odd years without helicopters? What happens if they get in the shit and have to get out quick? Do they call a taxi to the airport? You do know that the airport is 20 kms from Benghazi, don't you?
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1) Yes Tom, clearly I said the C130 should just start blasting away at anything and everything
2) Yes Tom, as I stated, do you think our spec ops forces are located on bases without the ability to transport attack choppers?
3) Tell us Tom... why do you go to the completely comical? Yes, they call a cab tom... they obviously would also walk barefoot and backwards. In addition they fire their rifles while holding them above their heads.
 
bravo said:
What the hell do you know about where and what assets were available to assist those being attacked....
Obama refuses to answer any questions that might make him look as worse than he does.
No one said anything about sending ground troops in to help, other than what was there....

Were the drones flying overhead armed...??? were more available ?.....why weren't they used ?
the attack lasted well over 7 hours....was there a C130 gunship available ?
Where and how far was the carrier offshore ?

We don't drop bombs on just any neighborhood under the plane, ass.....we can put a bomb up you ass without hitting your pockets .....
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I am just spelling out the options, which nobody else seems to have done. Was there an aircraft carrier nearby because if there was why are so many talking about flying 500 miles from Italy? I love the way that when Obama uses drones in Wajiristan he is called a monster yet it is somehow different in Libya.
 
Superfreak said:
1) Yes Tom, clearly I said the C130 should just start blasting away at anything and everything
2) Yes Tom, as I stated, do you think our spec ops forces are located on bases without the ability to transport attack choppers?
3) Tell us Tom... why do you go to the completely comical? Yes, they call a cab tom... they obviously would also walk barefoot and backwards. In addition they fire their rifles while holding them above their heads.
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Listen if you are going to get all shitty and condescending then you need to tell me:

1) Why did you say that you could put Apaches or Blackhawks in a C-130?
2) How do you get special forces in an Apache? Hanging on for dear life on the outside maybe?
3) Do you really think a C-130 gunship is an appropriate weapon for an urban situation, Vietnam is dead and gone!!
4) Why do helicopters like the Apache and Blackhawk have in-flight refuelling if it is so easy to transport them at a moments notice anywhere?
 
Everything you are arguing for SF would have increased the potential for casualties. It would not guarantee that Woods and Doherty would have survived. Again, the information indicates that Woods and Doherty died after SEVERAL hours of quiet in which it seemed everything was under control. Woods disobeyed an order that would have likely prevented his death. It is unlcear if Doherty did the same.

Either way, a forceful response does not seem like it would have been all that effective and would certainly offered another avenue for you guys to criticize. There is no point in pretending it would have satisfied you or anyone on the right. The very thought of it is absurd.
 
bravo said:
What the hell do you know about where and what assets were available to assist those being attacked....
Obama refuses to answer any questions that might make him look as worse than he does.
No one said anything about sending ground troops in to help, other than what was there....

Were the drones flying overhead armed...??? were more available ?.....why weren't they used ?
the attack lasted well over 7 hours....was there a C130 gunship available ?
Where and how far was the carrier offshore ?

We don't drop bombs on just any neighborhood under the plane, ass.....we can put a bomb up you ass without hitting your pockets .....
Click to expand...

What the hell do you know about it either, works both ways...
 
TheRocketSurgeon said:
Everything you are arguing for SF would have increased the potential for casualties. It would not guarantee that Woods and Doherty would have survived. Again, the information indicates that Woods and Doherty died after SEVERAL hours of quiet in which it seemed everything was under control. Woods disobeyed an order that would have likely prevented his death. It is unlcear if Doherty did the same.

Either way, a forceful response does not seem like it would have been all that effective and would certainly offered another avenue for you guys to criticize. There is no point in pretending it would have satisfied you or anyone on the right. The very thought of it is absurd.
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The only way to guarantee our embassies will not be attacked in these areas is to evacuate all Ameicans from these areas. It is not likely to happen.
 
Rana said:
What the hell do you know about it either, works both ways...
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Actually, I know a hell of a lot more about it then you and your fellow pinheads that are falling all over themselves to apologize for Obamas incompetence....

This the first time I've ever seen Americans being under attack in real time and where any help of ANY kind was refused because the rescuers MIGHT be in some danger themselves ?.......freakin' firefighters and policemen do it every day.....an asshole mountain climber or sinking sail boat gets more attention than that....
We both know you inane excuses are bullshit to cover Obamas ass....
This is the first time Americans and American military under attack were told "fuck you, you're on your own"....we don't even leave our dead troops lay in
the battlefield....we rescue their dead bodies under fire rather than leave them....
 
bravo said:
Actually, I know a hell of a lot more about it then you and your fellow pinheads that are falling all over themselves to apologize for Obamas incompetence....

This the first time I've ever seen Americans being under attack in real time and where any help of ANY kind was refused because the rescuers MIGHT be wome danger themselves.......freakin' firefighters and policemen do it every day.....an asshole mountain climber or sinking sail boat gets more attention than that....
We both know you inane excuses are bullshit to cover Obamas ass....
This is the first time Americans and American military under attack were told "fuck you, you're on your own"....
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You are a fool, you are one, who no matter what this administration did, you would be on the bitching side. You fool no one. You hate Obama and any decision his administration would make would be the wrong one. Just admit it and move on.
 
Rana said:
The thing you are forgetting, you can't just send troops into a sovereign country, even if you are the USA, and even if your embassey is under attack. Where do these troops come from? How long does it take them to get there? What type of red tape does it take to get them there.

There were times that we did send troops into this type of situation and it did not end well for our troops.
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1) No, I am not forgetting
2) Do you honestly think it would have taken more than a phone call? To a government that proclaims it is friendly to us, a government that we just got done helping oust their dictator? The troops could have been on the way while it was being worked out.
3) Again, for the 10000000000000th time, they would have come from the nearest base... Sicily... about 480 miles away. They could have been in there within 2-3 hours.

4) One thing for you to note... we had at least one drone flying overhead during the attack... if we had that, I think it very likely that it would not have been very hard to get fighter coverage and/or troops in there.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Listen if you are going to get all shitty and condescending then you need to tell me:

1) Why did you say that you could put Apaches or Blackhawks in a C-130?
2) How do you get special forces in an Apache? Hanging on for dear life on the outside maybe?
3) Do you really think a C-130 gunship is an appropriate weapon for an urban situation, Vietnam is dead and gone!!
4) Why do helicopters like the Apache and Blackhawk have in-flight refuelling if it is so easy to transport them at a moments notice anywhere?
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Dearest Tom...

1) I did not say they could put an Apache or Blackhawk in a C130. I said they could send a C130 for support.... if you are not capable of comprehension, then you really shouldn't get pissy when I get condescending.

2) Again, I stated they could use Apache's for support. I then stated they could use Spec Ops without the Apaches.

3) I was listing options Tom. Is it the best option... I don't know. But it is a better option to have that damn thing flying overhead than to not send anything.

4) Dearest Tom... they have it because it provides OPTIONS. They are not always going to have a BASE from which to leave that has the requirements needed. But in this case, the Spec Ops are STATIONED in Sicily. I would put the odds pretty high that the base they are stationed at is capable. Was Benghazi? Maybe not... which again dearest little Tom is why I listed multiple OPTIONS of what could be sent.
 
Superfreak said:
1) No, I am not forgetting
2) Do you honestly think it would have taken more than a phone call? To a government that proclaims it is friendly to us, a government that we just got done helping oust their dictator? The troops could have been on the way while it was being worked out.
3) Again, for the 10000000000000th time, they would have come from the nearest base... Sicily... about 480 miles away. They could have been in there within 2-3 hours.

4) One thing for you to note... we had at least one drone flying overhead during the attack... if we had that, I think it very likely that it would not have been very hard to get fighter coverage and/or troops in there.
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I see that you are still studiously avoiding the logistics, explain how you get troops in from Sicily with helicopters in that time span? Or would you just leave them without proper support and the ability to extricate themselves from the situation if it all went pear shaped?
 
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