College Football is back!

anonymoose said:
You haven't seen much. Nobody has at this point.
Quite the compliment coming from you. I figured you'd have the SEC alongside the ACC , PAC12 or maybe even Mountain West.
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Over the span of years (and I'm talking like 5 to 10 years....and longer) There's not a dimes bit of difference between the power 5 conferences and the numbers bear that out. Where the difference really lies in in the elite power programs like Alabama, OSU, Oklahoma, USC, Texas, ND, etc,. There are about 20 (or so) elite College Football programs and they are fairly evenly distributed among the 5 power conferences.
 
gfm7175 said:
Fair point... I forgot about Minnesota. They are better this year (and last) than prior years. So yeah, I'll give the Big 10 West the win over the SEC East. The SEC East has Georgia and Florida... The Big 10 West has Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota who are all doing well so far this year.

The SEC West I'd say is better than the Big 10 East. The Big 10 East has Ohio State and Penn State up top, with Michigan State following, but the SEC West has Auburn, Alabama, and LSU, all of which I think are right up there for the top teams in the country.

I'd say the SEC is better simply because I'd say that they have more "top 10" teams than any other conference has, but the Big 10 is not too far behind them (and I'd say they have more "top 20" teams than any other conference). I do think the SEC and the Big 10 blow other conferences out of the water though.

There's different ways to look at it. We'll see come the end of the season though, as things can change rather quickly.
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I don't use the polls when making evaluations. They are virtually worthless as an objective measure. That's why I've always opposed those who say they want to see the best teams in the playoff as they can't ever provide any objective measures for determining that. I want to see the National Championship earned and decided on the field. That's why I believe we should have a National Playoff based on automatic bids for conference champions because you've already proven you're not the best team, on the field, if you don't win your conference.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Over the span of years (and I'm talking like 5 to 10 years....and longer) There's not a dimes bit of difference between the power 5 conferences and the numbers bear that out. Where the difference really lies in in the elite power programs like Alabama, OSU, Oklahoma, USC, Texas, ND, etc,. There are about 20 (or so) elite College Football programs and they are fairly evenly distributed among the 5 power conferences.
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AP College Football Rankings: Greatest Programs Of All-Time

1 Oklahoma 1182 1
2 Alabama 1062 2
3 Ohio State 1052 3
4 Michigan 985 4
5 Notre Dame 975 5
6 USC 832 6
7 Texas 789 8
8 Nebraska 783 7
9 Penn State 694 10
10 Tennessee 686 9
11 LSU 653 11
12 Georgia 591 14
13 Auburn 572 13
14 Florida State 563 12
15 Miami 530 15
16 Florida 518 17
17 UCLA 503 16
18 Michigan State 454 18
19 Arkansas 439 19
20 Clemson 424 20
21 Washington 376 22
22 Texas A&M 375 21
23 Wisconsin 363 22
24 Ole Miss 347 24
25 Georgia Tech 343 25

https://collegefootballnews.com/2019/07/ap-college-football-rankings-greatest-programs-of-all-time
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I don't use the polls when making evaluations. They are virtually worthless as an objective measure. That's why I've always opposed those who say they want to see the best teams in the playoff as they can't ever provide any objective measures for determining that. I want to see the National Championship earned and decided on the field. That's why I believe we should have a National Playoff based on automatic bids for conference champions because you've already proven you're not the best team, on the field, if you don't win your conference.
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I agree. E.g., there are the power 5 conferences. Auto bids for the conf. champs from those. Then 3 at large bids from a selection committe would at least be better than what we have now. That would give a QF, SF, and final, three games, one more than now for the CFP. Look at how many cupcake teams the power 5 play. Generally about three. They could all schedule one less.
E.g., why is LSU playing Utah State this weekend after a week off 1/3 of the way into the season?
Alabama plays Western Carolina Nov. 23. Really? Makes no sense.
 
anonymoose said:
AP College Football Rankings: Greatest Programs Of All-Time

1 Oklahoma 1182 1
2 Alabama 1062 2
3 Ohio State 1052 3
4 Michigan 985 4
5 Notre Dame 975 5
6 USC 832 6
7 Texas 789 8
8 Nebraska 783 7
9 Penn State 694 10
10 Tennessee 686 9
11 LSU 653 11
12 Georgia 591 14
13 Auburn 572 13
14 Florida State 563 12
15 Miami 530 15
16 Florida 518 17
17 UCLA 503 16
18 Michigan State 454 18
19 Arkansas 439 19
20 Clemson 424 20
21 Washington 376 22
22 Texas A&M 375 21
23 Wisconsin 363 22
24 Ole Miss 347 24
25 Georgia Tech 343 25

https://collegefootballnews.com/2019/07/ap-college-football-rankings-greatest-programs-of-all-time
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There’s a flaw in that list. Minnesota should be #11 with 683 wins and 7 National Championships. Minnesota is an interesting study of having both a major college program and an NFL program in the same city. The Golden Gophers were a top tier college program and dominant power in the Big 10 with more National Championships than either OSU or Michigan. That ended in 1960 with their last National Championship. That was also in the early tv era of the NFL. Since then they dropped off the map as a National power. Many believe that has been due to competition for financial support with the Vikings.
 
anonymoose said:
I agree. E.g., there are the power 5 conferences. Auto bids for the conf. champs from those. Then 3 at large bids from a selection committe would at least be better than what we have now. That would give a QF, SF, and final, three games, one more than now for the CFP. Look at how many cupcake teams the power 5 play. Generally about three. They could all schedule one less.
E.g., why is LSU playing Utah State this weekend after a week off 1/3 of the way into the season?
Alabama plays Western Carolina Nov. 23. Really? Makes no sense.
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Sure it does. More money and inflated records for power 5 teams.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I don't use the polls when making evaluations. They are virtually worthless as an objective measure.
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I don't use them either, and agree that they are worthless. When I said "top 10" and etc, I was referring to my own subjective viewing of the best teams rather than any poll or ranking.

Mott the Hoople said:
That's why I've always opposed those who say they want to see the best teams in the playoff as they can't ever provide any objective measures for determining that.
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Agreed. The "best" is quite subjective, unless there is some agreed upon objective measure used to compare teams.

Mott the Hoople said:
I want to see the National Championship earned and decided on the field. That's why I believe we should have a National Playoff based on automatic bids for conference champions because you've already proven you're not the best team, on the field, if you don't win your conference.
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I'd be game for something like that. It would do away with the controversy of "they picked X team over Y team, how could they!!!"
 
anonymoose said:
I agree. E.g., there are the power 5 conferences. Auto bids for the conf. champs from those. Then 3 at large bids from a selection committe would at least be better than what we have now. That would give a QF, SF, and final, three games, one more than now for the CFP. Look at how many cupcake teams the power 5 play. Generally about three. They could all schedule one less.
E.g., why is LSU playing Utah State this weekend after a week off 1/3 of the way into the season?
Alabama plays Western Carolina Nov. 23. Really? Makes no sense.
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I'd be all for that... 5 auto bids from the champion of each power conference and then three "at large" bids to bring the playoff to 8 teams. Take out one game during the season of playing against completely pansy ass teams (Wisconsin vs Kent State?? Seriously??) and wha-blam, we have a much better system.
 
gfm7175 said:
I'd be all for that... 5 auto bids from the champion of each power conference and then three "at large" bids to bring the playoff to 8 teams. Take out one game during the season of playing against completely pansy ass teams (Wisconsin vs Kent State?? Seriously??) and wha-blam, we have a much better system.
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I would add the condition that at least two of those "at large" teams must go to non-power 5 conference champions or independants that meet specific selection criteria and that only one at large bid can go to a Non-Conference Champion from a power five conference that meets objective selection criteria. That would prevent the media and University systems from stacking the deck in any particular conferences favor as they currently do.

Lets keep in mind this is supposed to be a National Championship and not a regional one. Though we might be better off on eliminating all teams who have not won their conference as conference championships should mean something and they do act as a defact first round of a playoff. I fear that opening the door a crack for a non-conference champion would completely undermine a true playoff and we'd end up with the joke of a system we currently have.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I would add the condition that at least two of those "at large" teams must go to non-power 5 conference champions or independants that meet specific selection criteria and that only one at large bid can go to a Non-Conference Champion from a power five conference that meets objective selection criteria. That would prevent the media and University systems from stacking the deck in any particular conferences favor as they currently do.

Lets keep in mind this is supposed to be a National Championship and not a regional one.. I fear that opening the door a crack for a non-conference champion would completely undermine a true playoff and we'd end up with the joke of a system we currently have.
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What is a non-conference champion? Do you mean a team that didn't win their conference? :confused:
Mott the Hoople said:
Though we might be better off on eliminating all teams who have not won their conference as conference championships should mean something and they do act as a defact first round of a playoff.
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Even the NFL has wild cards. I suggest a team that didn't win their conference that is selected play an extra game. Maybe have one or two wild card games?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
There’s a flaw in that list. Minnesota should be #11 with 683 wins and 7 National Championships. Minnesota is an interesting study of having both a major college program and an NFL program in the same city. The Golden Gophers were a top tier college program and dominant power in the Big 10 with more National Championships than either OSU or Michigan. That ended in 1960 with their last National Championship. That was also in the early tv era of the NFL. Since then they dropped off the map as a National power. Many believe that has been due to competition for financial support with the Vikings.
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Personally I think one can forget all the "mythical" nat'l champions because they were just that - a myth.
 
anonymoose said:
What is a non-conference champion? Do you mean a team that didn't win their conference? :confused: Even the NFL has wild cards. I suggest a team that didn't win their conference that is selected play an extra game. Maybe have one or two wild card games?
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Not a bad idea if I had any trust in the NCAA to not screw it up...which I don't.
 
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