Complete Transformation’: New Biden Rule Would Force Automakers to Ditch Gas, Sell El

[Into the Night]

No, those that make gasoline powered cars will make electric powered cars. Or we can stop making cars for export, and then those making gasoline powered cars will make nothing.

You don't get to dictate what people make. Neither does Joe Biden.

 

[Into the Night]

The reason we pay workers is because they do a job that is worth paying them for. I know this concept is alien to Republicans; they think workers get paid out of the goodness of managements heart, but it is not so.

So you DO understand capitalism, but you just willingly deny and discard it.

So if workers are working on cars that cannot be exported, those are workers that will be laid off. That is just the way of the world. So we need to make sure they are working on cars that can be exported.

You can export anything.

There is no secret "set up" where workers get paid whatever happens to the stuff they make.

There is no secret 'set up' where workers only build one model car.

 

[Into the Night]

America made gas guzzlers that sold well in the USA, and less well, but OK, in other countries. Then the gas crisis happened, and suddenly people started to realize that gas guzzlers were not that great. That is why Toyota and other East Asian car companies started taking off. The lower sales abroad were a warning that we were going to lose sales here. We spent much of the 70's and 80's having to bail out the failing American car makers.

You want us to bet our car companies on the gas guzzler again. Even though we will not be able to export them, you say that we could just consume them all in the USA. But what happens when consumers in the USA stop buying them. We could create import barriers, and slowly become Brazil, or worse yet North Korea.

Or we can evolve, and make better cars.

Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. That is despite all the government mandates, the government subsidies, and the government encouragement of EVs.
It is unconstitutional to destroy whole economies by executive order.

 

[Nordberg]

Nice spin when you have nothing. Did they have a choice or were they forced to change. Biden is making regulations to force you to get an EV


https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/bi...s-strongest-ever-pollution-standards-cars-and

Biden does not make laws or regulations.

 

[Into the Night]

They made the same arguments about ICE's when they were replacing the horse.

Horses have not been replaced. They still exist and people still ride them.
EVs are NOT new technology. They are older than ICE vehicles.
EVs do NOT get from point A to point B as efficiently. They use almost twice as much energy as ICE cars. Their payload capacity sucks too. They are also very expensive and also more expensive and difficult to maintain.

They made the same arguments about the more efficient cars in the 1970's.

You are making stuff up. Cars in the U.S. in the 70's were being badly built. So badly built that people started buying foreign cars.

We keep coming back to the point that people just want something that will get them from point A to point B while not costing them an arm and a leg. There are a few people who want to burn gasoline to impress other people, but they are so few, it is hard to support an industry on them.

EVs cost an arm AND a leg, so to speak. They are far more expensive from getting from point A to point B than ICE cars. Further, they cannot carry the payload of ICE cars doing it.

The idea would be to make all cars pay a mileage tax, so ICE's will have to pay both taxes.

Unconstitutional. See the 14th Amendment.

 

[Nordberg]

Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. That is despite all the government mandates, the government subsidies, and the government encouragement of EVs.
It is unconstitutional to destroy whole economies by executive order.

It is not in the Constitution. Nothing like that is. The numbers are irrelevant. When RVs were invented there were There were over 270 million on the road when EVs first arrived. How many have to be made to jack that percentage up? This is simple math and I am sure you know better. Honesty is not your strong suit.

 

[Into the Night]

All the car companies except one are making EVs.

Blatant lie. One of those companies that will no longer manufacture EVs is Toyota, the world's largest car company.

There are new EV companies and start-ups in the early build stages.

So?

There will be no job losses.

Yet you said there would be. Make up your mind.

thee will be a huge amount of new jobs coming and many new ones are already here.

.....such as?

There is a lot of research directed at EVs and charging.

Not really. The lithium ion battery was created in the mid 80s. It is still exactly the same chemistry it always has been. It still has the same charging requirements it always has had. The weight of these batteries hasn't changed either.

There will have to be a lot of mechanics and technologies requiring educated workforces for EVs.

Nope. EVs cannot be repaired in a regular shop. In most cases, they cannot be repaired at all, should they suffer slight damage from accidents.

The future looks bright and clean.

If 'bright and clean' means a lot more coal, oil, and natural gas plants to produce the necessary electricity, and many more high tension lines, and lithium strip mining increases massively, and a massive increase in the number of ships hauling lithium ore to China and hauling batteries from China to EV factories, and fascism reigns supreme.

Fuck you. Fuck the King.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Biden does not make laws or regulations.

he just gives orders to the people who make regulations.....

 

[Into the Night]

Gasoline was hard to come by.

Gasoline was easy to come by.

There was no distribution network.

Yes there was.

The cars broke down easily.

They could be repaired easily.

It would take a couple of days to repair a tire (before modern roads, there were a lot of flats).

BS. It only took a few minutes to change a flat.

And they were dangerous, which made people hate them.

Which is why people kept buying them. Gotit.

They were hard to start, you had to be a strong man to turn the crank.

You've obviously never started such a car. I have. There are also some airplanes that require cranks to start them. Others you start just by flipping the propeller.
Yes, there are still cars like this on the road. There are still aircraft like this flying as well. Pull starters are also common.

Unusable, dangerous, hard to use, breaking down easily... And very expensive. Yes, they cost several years income for the average person, so that was another reason to hate them.

So people kept buying them. Gotit.

No, no, no... That is not the way government works. There will be a tax on miles, AND a tax on gasoline, that will go up a lot. As fewer people own gasoline powered cars, fewer people will care about your complaints.

Unconstitutional. See the 14th amendment.

Again, not how government works. No one is going to give you a tax break for being stupid.

Unconstitutional. See the 14th amendment.

The odometers come to mind. If people start messing with that, there are ways to make better odometers.

He is not talking about cars with odometers.

If you have a pre-odometer car, they can just charge you an even $100k a year to drive on the roads. Who is going to complain? A few really old car owners?

Unconstitutional. See the 14th Amendment.

 

[Into the Night]

I am beginning to wonder if Gardner has ever owned a car.

Obviously, he has. He understands them a lot better than you as well.

Currently, every year you are required to report the odometer reading to the government,

No such law.

so they do not need a data link.

Mechanical odometers do not have a data link.

It is not a ex post facto law to require cars to add something to be legal to drive on the road.

Yes it is.

They usually grandfather clause in cars, but there is no constitutional requirement they do.

The Constitution does not authorize the federal government to dictate anything about cars.

First, there is tamperproof containers.

The best way to test a childproof container is to give to a child. They easily get through it.

Messing with that, and leaving no evidence, is not easy. Certainly not a few minutes.

Easy to mess with.

More importantly, if you get caught driving a car with the odometer disconnected, that is a FELONY.

Another lie.

You are looking at one to three years in prison. And because it is a federal felony, you will not be getting out early.

No such law.

The wealthy just pay these fees, and move on. They do not risk felony time for such stupid little things.

Unconstitutional. See the 14th amendment.

 

[Into the Night]

For both the registration, and the inspection, the mileage is reported to the government. The states are required by the federal government to get a report.

No such law.

Making a requirement to drive a car on future roads is not "ex post facto", even if the car is from the past.

Yes it is.

It would be like claiming that you can use a gun made before a murder law was put into place to murder people.

It has never been legal to murder people, regardless of the weapon.

Heck, pretty much all rocks predate murder laws... Does that mean rocks are legal to murder with?

It has never been legal to murder people, regardless of the weapon.

It was usually made tamper resistant...

Easily circumvented.

But even if you could get away with it,

A lot of people did.

you would be driving a car that is a federal felony.

No such law.

Worse yet, you would not know how fast you were going,

Nope. The speedometer can still work.

and probably get pulled over for speeding.

Following regular traffic flow does not result in speeding tickets.

One of the Big Three car companies used to drive new cars for a few months with the odometer/speedometer disconnected. People served felony time over that.

Lie.

It is currently assumed that all vehicles will one day be sold, and the reason for the odometer fraud is for a future sale. If there is state and federal taxes on the odometer reading, then it will be assumed that it is tax fraud.

Not a tax law. You cannot assume guilt. Unconstitutional.

So you have federal odometer fraud, federal tax fraud, and state tax fraud. Because they are in three different areas, they will not be served concurrently. That means you are going to serve at least 3 years in prison.

No such law.

Federal laws still apply in Arizona.

No such law.

So all you have to do is drive a million miles a year, and it will register as zero miles? That would require you to drive 115 mph, every hour of the year. It is physically impossible. So if one year, you have 990,000.0, and the next year you have 010,000.0, then everyone knows you drove 20,000.0 miles that year. See how it works?

Attempted proof by contrivance.

No, it says that something happened. The only way to "absolve" you of criminal charges is to either explain what happened was no one's fault, or that it was someone else's fault.

Unconstitutional. You do not have to 'absolve' anything.

Or commit tax fraud? Remember, you want to commit felony tax fraud.

No such law.

 

[Into the Night]

One more time, federal law applies to all states.

No such law. Federal laws do not necessarily apply to States.

If you disconnect the odometer to avoid paying a mileage tax, that is plain and simple tax fraud. You will go to prison for the odometer tampering... AND... For the tax fraud.

No such law.

 

[Into the Night]

Biden does not make laws or regulations.

So he signed no such executive order...yet he did, and you argue supporting it. Paradox. Irrational.

 

[Into the Night]

It is not in the Constitution. Nothing like that is.

Which means Joe Biden has NO AUTHORITY to destroy whole economies with a stroke of a pen.

The numbers are irrelevant.

They are completely relevant. Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs.

When RVs were invented there were

The original RV was the covered wagon.

There were over 270 million on the road when EVs first arrived.

EVs were invented before ICE cars.

How many have to be made to jack that percentage up?

A hell of a lot more than can be built using known resources.

This is simple math

Which you deny.

and I am sure you know better.

I do.

Honesty is not your strong suit.

You are describing yourself.

 

[Into the Night]

he just gives orders to the people who make regulations.....

He has no authority to give this order.

 

[ptif219]

Since this is unconstitutional, it remains to be seen how far this goes.

Somebody has to take it to court

 

[ptif219]

Solar panels are the most expensive method of producing power, watt for watt.

That is why electric bills are increasing

 

[ptif219]

Biden does not make laws or regulations.

Yes he does through the EPA and his EO

 

[Lightbringer]

This will do great damage to the country. The grid is not ready and people will lose jobs. The poor and middle class will struggle because they can't afford electric cars and gas will be more expensive.Biden and his socialist agenda ttakes away freedom of choice. Biden and democrats want to control you. the only choice they believe in is the choice to kill babies


Complete Transformation’: New Biden Rule Would Force Automakers to Ditch Gas, Sell Electric Vehicles

The federal government doesn't have the authority to do this.

 

[ptif219]

The federal government doesn't have the authority to do this.

We shall see