Con Law - Lesson 1 "The Preamble"

T. A. Gardner said:
Why not? It also doesn't answer the question posed: If "promote the general welfare" means something legally, what are the limits on it?
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It’s very clear what it meant



general is a word


It’s defined in the dictionary


Welfare has a meaning


It’s defined n the dictionary



The founders were aware of the meanings of those words
 
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/general



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general adjective
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gen·​er·​al | \ ˈjen-rəl , ˈje-nə- \
Essential Meaning of general
1 : of, relating to, or affecting all the people or things in a group
They have issued a general warning/order.
a general alarm
: involving or including many or most people
The general mood here is optimistic. [=most people here are optimistic]
The general consensus is that we should go ahead.
It's a story with general interest. = It's a general-interest story. [=it is a story that will interest many or most people]
2 : relating to the main or major parts of something rather than the details : not specific
The witness was able to provide a very general description of the thief.
She began her talk with some general observations about the state of the industry.
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3 —used to indicate that a description relates to an entire person or thing rather than a particular part
The building was in good general shape.
Full Definition of general (Entry 1 of 2)
1 : involving, applicable to, or affecting the whole
2 : involving, relating to, or applicable to every member of a class, kind, or group
the general equation of a straight line
3 : not confined by specialization or careful limitation
a general outline
4 : belonging to the common nature of a group of like individuals : GENERIC
the general characteristics of a species
5a : applicable to or characteristic of the majority of individuals involved : PREVALENT
the general opinion
b : concerned or dealing with universal rather than particular aspects
6 : relating to, determined by, or concerned with main elements rather than limited details
bearing a general resemblance to the original
7 : holding superior rank or taking precedence over others similarly titled
the general manager
general noun
Definition of general (Entry 2 of 2)
1 : something (such as a concept, principle, or statement) that involves or is applicable to the whole
2 : SUPERIOR GENERAL
3 archaic : the general public : PEOPLE
4a : GENERAL OFFICER
b : a commissioned officer in the army, air force, or marine corps who ranks above a lieutenant general and whose insignia is four stars
— compare ADMIRAL
in general
: for the most part : GENERALLY
In general, things are going as planned.

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Synonyms & Antonyms for general
Synonyms: Adjective
across-the-board, blanket, broad-brush, common, generic, global, overall, universal
Antonyms: Adjective
individual, particular
 
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/welfare


welfare noun
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wel·​fare | \ ˈwel-ˌfer \
Essential Meaning of welfare
1 : a government program for poor or unemployed people that helps pay for their food, housing, medical costs, etc.
He wants to do away with welfare.
His family is on welfare. [=receiving government assistance]
2 : the state of being happy, healthy, or successful : WELL-BEING
I have your welfare at heart.
The welfare of all the orphans was at stake.
She donates to organizations concerned about animal welfare.
Full Definition of welfare (Entry 1 of 2)
1 : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity
must look out for your own welfare
2a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need
b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed
welfare adjective
Definition of welfare (Entry 2 of 2)
1 : of, relating to, or concerned with welfare and especially with improvement of the welfare of disadvantaged social groups
welfare legislation
2 : receiving public welfare benefits
welfare families

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Learn More About welfare

Synonyms & Antonyms for welfare
Synonyms: Noun
good, interest, weal, well-being
Antonyms: Noun
ill-being
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1 : of, relating to, or affecting all the people or things in a group
They have issued a general warning/order.
a general alarm
: involving or including many or most people



1 : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity
 
relating to, or affecting all the people or things in a group and their state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Why not? It also doesn't answer the question posed: If "promote the general welfare" means something legally, what are the limits on it?
Click to expand...

The Constitution has no restrictions on what Congress can do to provide for the general welfare. It is a power specifically granted Congress in the Constitution. The founders argued in the Federalist papers there should be no legal limits on the levels of Federal taxation which is in the same sentence. Why would you think they would place limits on providing for the general welfare?
Section 8: Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
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T. A. Gardner said:
Okay, so? The preamble is just a general statement about what the constitution is for. It isn't law, it isn't legal standing to use to create law. That comes in what follows, not the preamble. It's like a forward or introduction to a book, not the contents of the book itself.
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Agreed. And "promoting the general welfare" is not a separate grant of power. If it meant Congress could take any action in the "general welfare" there would be no need for Article I, Section 8 enumerating the (17?) delegated powers of Congress. The Constitution clearly sought to limit the powers of the federal government and not issue such a broad grant as "general welfare" which would vary greatly depending on those in power.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
The Constitution has no restrictions on what Congress can do to provide for the general welfare. It is a power specifically granted Congress in the Constitution. The founders argued in the Federalist papers there should be no legal limits on the levels of Federal taxation which is in the same sentence. Why would you think they would place limits on providing for the general welfare?
Click to expand...

Absolutely wrong. The framers quite clearly stated that what was allowed to the federal government was spelled out in the constitution, everything else was reserved to the states or the people. The whole federal welfare state is built on bullshit.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The "Militia" has meaning. The Orgainzed militia consists today of the National Guard. The unorganized militia is the people themselves. Much like Switzerland, as an example, the idea is that every able-bodied citizen is part of the militia and defends the nation when necessary. Thus, keeping military grade weapons by individual citizens is the whole point of the 2nd Amendment.
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Would you be willing to have the US pass the same gun laws as Switzerland?

I am asking because I am curious as to how ignorant you are about the actual laws in Switzerland vs the RW myths.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Absolutely wrong. The framers quite clearly stated that what was allowed to the federal government was spelled out in the constitution, everything else was reserved to the states or the people. The whole federal welfare state is built on bullshit.
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So now you are simply claiming that words that do exist in the Constitution don't exist? Interesting since I quoted Article I where Congress is granted the power you say doesn't exist.
 
Flash said:
Agreed. And "promoting the general welfare" is not a separate grant of power. If it meant Congress could take any action in the "general welfare" there would be no need for Article I, Section 8 enumerating the (17?) delegated powers of Congress. The Constitution clearly sought to limit the powers of the federal government and not issue such a broad grant as "general welfare" which would vary greatly depending on those in power.
Click to expand...
I am curious if you have ever actually read the US Constitution because the federal government was clearly given the power to provide for the general welfare. While one could argue that one can promote the general welfare without providing for it, it's rather hard to provide for it without promoting it.

Section 8: Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Click to expand...
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
The Constitution has no restrictions on what Congress can do to provide for the general welfare. It is a power specifically granted Congress in the Constitution. The founders argued in the Federalist papers there should be no legal limits on the levels of Federal taxation which is in the same sentence. Why would you think they would place limits on providing for the general welfare?
Click to expand...

Of course there are limits. See Article II, Section 9.

There are also clearly limits on federal taxation: "No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken" which resulted in the income tax being declared unconstitutional because it was not apportioned.

--it was Hamilton who argued there were no limits.

"Madison argued that Congress had no independent power to tax and spend in pursuit of its conception of the general welfare; rather, Madison contended, the constitutional meaning of the phrase “general Welfare” is defined and limited by the specific grants of authority in the rest of Section 8."
 
evince said:
relating to, or affecting all the people or things in a group and their state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity
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This was the founders clear intent on the USA constitution




It’s not for you right wing assholes to throw away
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Absolutely wrong. The framers quite clearly stated that what was allowed to the federal government was spelled out in the constitution, everything else was reserved to the states or the people. The whole federal welfare state is built on bullshit.
Click to expand...

Lies

The told us what they thought


You “throw that away”
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
Would you be willing to have the US pass the same gun laws as Switzerland?

I am asking because I am curious as to how ignorant you are about the actual laws in Switzerland vs the RW myths.
Click to expand...

This is a combination of fallacies consisting of a Tu Quoque, No true Scotsman, and ending with an ad hominem.

It should have been obvious the comparison wasn't intended to be an exact match but a generalization you turned into an argument for an exact match (No true Scotsman). It combines this with the claim in the ad hominem as a Tu Quoque (what about...?).
 
T. A. Gardner said:
This is a combination of fallacies consisting of a Tu Quoque, No true Scotsman, and ending with an ad hominem.

It should have been obvious the comparison wasn't intended to be an exact match but a generalization you turned into an argument for an exact match (No true Scotsman). It combines this with the claim in the ad hominem as a Tu Quoque (what about...?).
Click to expand...

Fucking idiot blather
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Absolutely wrong. The framers quite clearly stated that what was allowed to the federal government was spelled out in the constitution, everything else was reserved to the states or the people. The whole federal welfare state is built on bullshit.
Click to expand...

Please cite any backup for that claim.
 
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