Confederate Statues

Oneuli

Verified User
It's tempting to immediately condemn those who illegally pull down confederate statues, but it's important to remember the context of that vandalism. At least in North Carolina, a law at the state level has made it effectively impossible for communities to remove such statues by lawful means. Even if a university is uncomfortable with subjecting its students to a monument to white supremacy, they cannot take it down or even move it to a less prominent place without a change of the law at the state level. Similarly, if a community of color doesn't like having to see a defender of slavery honored in their midst, they cannot protect themselves from that eyesore through legal action at the community or even city level. By denying people in those locales usable legal tools for addressing offensive statues, the state has effectively invited extra-legal action by those communities.

Here's an idea for an alternative. As I understand it, the law was worded such that it only made it illegal to take the statue down or to move it to a less prominent place. If that's right, you could simply cover it up. The left has a lot of really talented artists. So, just have some design structures that can be built around the offensive ones, hiding them completely. That could include practical things like little clock towers or obelisks for posting placards. Or it could be other monuments, designed to fit snugly (and maybe irreversibly) over the offensive ones and to send a very different message.

For example, put up a big pedestal, covering the offensive statue, and on top of that put a statue to John Adams Hyman, the first African American Congress member in North Carolina. Or have it feature statues of several black students, representing the first black students at UNC, following court-ordered desegregation. Then the statue hasn't been brought down or moved, so nothing illegal has happened, but it's been transformed from a celebration of white supremacist treason to a celebration of something positive.
 
It's tempting to immediately condemn those who illegally pull down confederate statues, but it's important to remember the context of that vandalism. At least in North Carolina, a law at the state level has made it effectively impossible for communities to remove such statues by lawful means. Even if a university is uncomfortable with subjecting its students to a monument to white supremacy, they cannot take it down or even move it to a less prominent place without a change of the law at the state level. Similarly, if a community of color doesn't like having to see a defender of slavery honored in their midst, they cannot protect themselves from that eyesore through legal action at the community or even city level. By denying people in those locales usable legal tools for addressing offensive statues, the state has effectively invited extra-legal action by those communities.

Here's an idea for an alternative. As I understand it, the law was worded such that it only made it illegal to take the statue down or to move it to a less prominent place. If that's right, you could simply cover it up. The left has a lot of really talented artists. So, just have some design structures that can be built around the offensive ones, hiding them completely. That could include practical things like little clock towers or obelisks for posting placards. Or it could be other monuments, designed to fit snugly (and maybe irreversibly) over the offensive ones and to send a very different message.

For example, put up a big pedestal, covering the offensive statue, and on top of that put a statue to John Adams Hyman, the first African American Congress member in North Carolina. Or have it feature statues of several black students, representing the first black students at UNC, following court-ordered desegregation. Then the statue hasn't been brought down or moved, so nothing illegal has happened, but it's been transformed from a celebration of white supremacist treason to a celebration of something positive.
I think this is a great compromise.
 
cite the law please

Here, this seems to be it:

https://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015/Bills/Senate/PDF/S22v5.pdf

The relevant language:

Approval Required. – Except as otherwise provided in subsection (b) of this section,
a monument, memorial, or work of art owned by the State may not be removed, relocated, or
altered in any way without the approval of the North Carolina Historical Commission.

That seems to allow what I'm talking about, as long as the offensive monument remains in place and isn't altered. Basically, a hard cap over it that doesn't actually touch it would be OK.
 
Here, this seems to be it:

https://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015/Bills/Senate/PDF/S22v5.pdf

The relevant language:

Approval Required. – Except as otherwise provided in subsection (b) of this section,
a monument, memorial, or work of art owned by the State may not be removed, relocated, or
altered in any way without the approval of the North Carolina Historical Commission.

That seems to allow what I'm talking about, as long as the offensive monument remains in place and isn't altered. Basically, a hard cap over it that doesn't actually touch it would be OK.
I like the idea of historical commisions making the decision as to whether to remove/stay or relocate the CSA statues.

I called for a national commission, or state by state a long time ago -it takes it out of the political realm

for ex. there is one in Richmond that honors the service of Robert E, Lee - but I read about 2 put up during Jim Crow that were right outside of a slave bartering building in Memphis (obviously supporting slavery)
 
I like the idea of historical commisions making the decision as to whether to remove/stay or relocate the CSA statues.

I called for a national commission, or state by state a long time ago -it takes it out of the political realm

for ex. there is one in Richmond that honors the service of Robert E, Lee - but I read about 2 put up during Jim Crow that were right outside of a slave bartering building in Memphis (obviously supporting slavery)

Statues to treason should never been put up.
Only a statue of RE Lee being hanged should have been allowed.
Lee should of been hanged,bigger enemy than Benedict Arnold!
 
Statues to treason should never been put up.
Only a statue of RE Lee being hanged should have been allowed.
Lee should of been hanged,bigger enemy than Benedict Arnold!
Like I said take it out of the hands of the hotheads ( such as yourself) and get the true historical perspective
of each monument
 
Statues to treason should never been put up.
Only a statue of RE Lee being hanged should have been allowed.
Lee should of been hanged,bigger enemy than Benedict Arnold!

Lee was a traitor who left the US Army because he loved slavery so much and thought black people were inferior.

I wouldn't even dignify him with a monument of him being hung. That's too good for him. He deserves to not be remembered for anything other than being a traitor.
 
Like I said take it out of the hands of the hotheads ( such as yourself) and get the true historical perspective
of each monument

The only historical perspective is that these are monuments to white supremacy and racism. They contain and embody no historical value or significance.

THEY SHOULD ALL BE DESTROYED. All of them. No exceptions.
 
The only historical perspective is that these are monuments to white supremacy and racism. They contain and embody no historical value or significance.

THEY SHOULD ALL BE DESTROYED. All of them. No exceptions.
and again..why historical commisions who can trace the heritage of each are better then political hotheads/mobs
 
and again..why historical commisions who can trace the heritage of each are better then political hotheads/mobs

Heritage?

A statue has "heritage"?

What do you mean? I don't understand what "heritage" means in this context or this argument.
 
At the end of the day, whether statues are standing or on the ground, it doesn't change a thing.

Well, the statue being torn down does change that the statue's presence isn't there, and thus, all the shitty things that statue embodies and represents aren't there either.
 
The only historical perspective is that these are monuments to white supremacy and racism. They contain and embody no historical value or significance.

THEY SHOULD ALL BE DESTROYED. All of them. No exceptions.
You'd like to erase the history books too, like it never happened, but you can't.

The end goal you seek will never come to fruition.
 
Well, the statue being torn down does change that the statue's presence isn't there, and thus, all the shitty things that statue embodies and represents aren't there either.
Doesn't matter. No one notices them anyway and haven't for decades.

Changes nothing, certainly not history.
 
Doesn't matter. No one notices them anyway and haven't for decades.

Changes nothing, certainly not history.


So you'd be ok with placing statues of Black Civil Right's Leaders right next to them?

After all, they did change something in both history and our present.
 
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confederate-monument-protes7.jpg


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So you'd be ok with placing statues of Black Civil Right's Leaders right next to them?

After all, they did change something in both history and our present.
I couldn't care less about a statue of anything, put a statue of a pear tree there for all I care.
 
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