Confederate Statues

[CFM]

No, they should either not be indicted, or receive jury nullifications from their fellow citizens.

In other words, criminal supporters justifying criminal activity because they agree with the crime that was committed?

Interesting how you justify crime when you agree with what is being done.

 

[CFM]

You forgot to include "NL," like your friend CFM.

You didn't forget to be one, as usual. Pucker up, coon.

 

[Minister of Truth]

In other words, criminal supporters justifying criminal activity because they agree with the crime that was committed?

Interesting how you justify crime when you agree with what is being done.

You probably think the Boston Tea Party was an egregious incident of lawlessness and anti-British sentiment.

 

[RB 60]

You probably think the Boston Tea Party was an egregious incident of lawlessness and anti-British sentiment.

To the British, it was.

 

[RB 60]

Every single Conservative is just as racist as CFM. Some are just more overt than others; but they all think that way.

Once again, you prove your ignorance.

 

[Mason Michaels]

Once again, you prove your ignorance.

If it looks like a duck!etc

 

[Althea]

It's tempting to immediately condemn those who illegally pull down confederate statues, but it's important to remember the context of that vandalism. At least in North Carolina, a law at the state level has made it effectively impossible for communities to remove such statues by lawful means. Even if a university is uncomfortable with subjecting its students to a monument to white supremacy, they cannot take it down or even move it to a less prominent place without a change of the law at the state level. Similarly, if a community of color doesn't like having to see a defender of slavery honored in their midst, they cannot protect themselves from that eyesore through legal action at the community or even city level. By denying people in those locales usable legal tools for addressing offensive statues, the state has effectively invited extra-legal action by those communities.

Here's an idea for an alternative. As I understand it, the law was worded such that it only made it illegal to take the statue down or to move it to a less prominent place. If that's right, you could simply cover it up. The left has a lot of really talented artists. So, just have some design structures that can be built around the offensive ones, hiding them completely. That could include practical things like little clock towers or obelisks for posting placards. Or it could be other monuments, designed to fit snugly (and maybe irreversibly) over the offensive ones and to send a very different message.

For example, put up a big pedestal, covering the offensive statue, and on top of that put a statue to John Adams Hyman, the first African American Congress member in North Carolina. Or have it feature statues of several black students, representing the first black students at UNC, following court-ordered desegregation. Then the statue hasn't been brought down or moved, so nothing illegal has happened, but it's been transformed from a celebration of white supremacist treason to a celebration of something positive.

That's an interesting idea. Although, there are places where the 'offensive' statues would do more good, like a Confederate cemetery. So the law, although knee jerk, is detrimental to the cause.


In N.C., I'm not sure why the statue was offensive? It merely commemorated the students at the college who went off to war.

 

[Althea]

You'd like to erase the history books too, like it never happened, but you can't.

The end goal you seek will never come to fruition.

We wouldn't expect you to understand the fact that these statues were erected as an honor to those who fought against changing our sordid policies. In essence, if society doesn't ascribe to those policies because of some eventual awakening, then why keep the memory of same alive?

I understand that you yearn for the 'good ole days', but most have moved on.

 

[Althea]

Makes zero difference. Surely doesn't change anything.

Might as well remove them, then.

 

[CFM]

You probably think the Boston Tea Party was an egregious incident of lawlessness and anti-British sentiment.

I knew you'd eventually run from the topic of discussion because you can't defend your position. It's what you kind does.

 

[CFM]

That's an interesting idea. Although, there are places where the 'offensive' statues would do more good, like a Confederate cemetery. So the law, although knee jerk, is detrimental to the cause.


In N.C., I'm not sure why the statue was offensive? It merely commemorated the students at the college who went off to war.

To claim it was offensive gave the snowflakes that committed a crime an excuse to carry out what they have a propensity to do. People think they can claim to be offended and whatever it is that offends them should automatically be removed or the person taking the action should automatically stop because the snowflake got his/her feelings hurt.

 

[CFM]

We wouldn't expect you to understand the fact that these statues were erected as an honor to those who fought against changing our sordid policies. In essence, if society doesn't ascribe to those policies because of some eventual awakening, then why keep the memory of same alive?

I understand that you yearn for the 'good ole days', but most have moved on.

You mean the "good ole days" when pussies like these criminals didn't commit crimes because they were triggered by an inanimate object? Are you saying you support them committing crimes because an inanimate object made of metal hurt their feelings?

 

[Irish Exit]

That's an interesting idea. Although, there are places where the 'offensive' statues would do more good, like a Confederate cemetery. So the law, although knee jerk, is detrimental to the cause.


In N.C., I'm not sure why the statue was offensive? It merely commemorated the students at the college who went off to war.

It wasn't offensive. They just want to offend the other side. Internet flame wars have broken out of the matrix and into the real world.

 

[Life is Golden]

Might as well remove them, then.

Makes no difference to me. I didn't notice them then, don't notice them now.

Nothing else will change, certainly not history.

 

[katzgar]

Makes no difference to me. I didn't notice them then, don't notice them now.

Nothing else will change, certainly not history.

You are a liar

 

[Minister of Truth]

I knew you'd eventually run from the topic of discussion because you can't defend your position. It's what you kind does.

I knew you couldn't defend the American Revolution, because you hate America.

 

[Minister of Truth]

That's an interesting idea. Although, there are places where the 'offensive' statues would do more good, like a Confederate cemetery. So the law, although knee jerk, is detrimental to the cause.


In N.C., I'm not sure why the statue was offensive? It merely commemorated the students at the college who went off to war.

NC, having lost the war, doesn't need to be building monuments that celebrate the cause of the enemy. It should build American monuments that give some pretense that the state might be worth a damn.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

You mean the "good ole days" when pussies like these criminals didn't commit crimes because they were triggered by an inanimate object? Are you saying you support them committing crimes because an inanimate object made of metal hurt their feelings?

Someone has been permanently scarred, triggered by the slow and steady removal of inanimate objects by local peoples acting in their own communities.

 

[RB 60]

We wouldn't expect you to understand the fact that these statues were erected as an honor to those who fought against changing our sordid policies. In essence, if society doesn't ascribe to those policies because of some eventual awakening, then why keep the memory of same alive?

I understand that you yearn for the 'good ole days', but most have moved on.

If "most have moved on," why are they so offensive?

 

[Guno צְבִי]

If "most have moved on," why are they so offensive?

Dedication

Unveiling of the monument on June 2, 1913
The program for the unveiling of the monument started at 3:30 pm, on June 2, 1913. Speeches were given by, among others, Mrs. Marshall Williams, president of the local division of the United Daughters of the Confederacy; and Francis Preston Venable, the university’s president. The program concluded with a rendition of "Tenting on the Old Camp Ground".[20]

"The University mourned in silent desolation. Her children had been slain. But she was splendid in that day of tribulation, for wherever armies had marched and wherever the conclusion of fierce battle had been tried, her sons had fought and fallen at the front. This statue is a memorial to their chivalry and devotion. It is an epic poem in bronze. Its beauty and its grandeur are not limited by the genius of the sculptor. The soul of the beholder will determine the revelation of its meaning. It will remind you, and those who come after you of the boys who left these peaceful classic shades for the hardships of armies at the front, for the fierce carnage of titanic battles, for suffering and for death. We unveil and dedicate this monument today, as a covenant that we, too, will do our task with fidelity and courage." -from the dedication speech of Governor Locke Craig, June 2, 1913[21]
The Governor of North Carolina, Locke Craig, also spoke. "Ours is the task to build a State worthy of all patriotism and heroic deeds," he said, "a State that demands justice for herself and all her people, a State sounding with the music of victorious industry, a State whose awakened conscience shall lead the State to evolve from the forces of progress a new social order, with finer development for all conditions and classes of our people".[22]

The dedication speech which has attracted the most subsequent notice was given by Julian Carr, a prominent industrialist, UNC alumnus, former Confederate soldier, and the largest single donor towards the construction of the monument. It was submitted in advance to the university for checking.[23]

W. Fitzhugh Brundage, the William B. Umstead Professor of History at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, described this speech as one in which Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery."[24] In it, Carr emphatically praised the student-soldiers and soldiers of the Confederate Army for their wartime valor and patriotism,[3] adding that "the present generation ... scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war ... Their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South."

According to Brundage, Carr's phrase "the four years immediately succeeding the war" is a clear reference to the Reconstruction era, when the Ku Klux Klan, working to restore the dominance of traditional white hierarchy in the South, terrorized blacks and white Republicans.[24] The key section, however, is this boast Carr made to the campus crowd:

One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds because she had maligned and insulted a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Sam#Dedication