You also called those not tipping the way you thought they should "stingy". Can't have it both ways.
Yes, I have my opinions on how waitresses ought to be tipped. I think that, say, tipping $2 to a very good waitress when the meal costed $50, is a quite "stingy" tip. Other people likely have different opinions on what they consider to be "stingy".
If you consider someone not tipping enough as a problem, you are trying to say how much should be tipped.
Yes, I have opinions on how much they should be tipped if they do a good job; No, I am not attempting to force my opinions onto others through "forced tipping" or some other means. Some restaurants even openly build such gratuity into their pricing.
Again, you can't say it's up to the person receiving service then whine about them not doing what you think they should do.
It is up to the person receiving service, yet I have the right to express my opinion about their tipping amounts. They have the right to express their opinion about my opinion of their tipping amounts...
This has gotten away from the main point, which was that waitresses are an example of people who accept a job without knowing what they are going to be making, because there is no way for them to know how much they are going to be making beyond their very low base wage (prior to tips). You made a blanket statement, and I simply pointed out that, while the blanket statement is GENERALLY correct, it is not ALWAYS correct. There are exceptions.
We've been going back and forth about who has the right to do this that and the other thing, my poor choice of terminology, and other semi-related points, when this whole exchange was really just me making the point that it's not always the case that people know precisely how much money they are going to be making before accepting a job. The rest of this exchange seems to be bickering for the sake of bickering.
Every worker starts knowing what he/she will make including waiters/waitresses.
Now we're back to the main point. I don't agree with your position that they know precisely how much they will be making.
There is an hourly wage attached to those positions.
Correct.
I agree that tips technically aren't wages (especially from an employer's standpoint), but from the perspective of the employee, tips are effectively part of their "wages" (or in other words, tips are a rather sizable portion of their take home pay). Sure, one can approximate (to an extent) how much tips generally get received, but it is not a known. Therefore, waitresses don't know precisely how much they are going to be making. ("making" as in "amount of money they take home").
When I look at a menu and see the price, it doesn't include the tip.
Correct.
That means the tip [is?] in addition to the price
Correct.
just like the tip is in addition to the known wage of that waiter/waitress.
Correct, especially from the employer's perspective. However, from the employee's perspective, tips are effectively part of their "wages".
Good bidders can figure in the unexpected potential. It comes from experience. Are they perfect? No, but good ones can get real close.
Correct.
Wait staff can't get to the exact penny because their compensation is based on wages.
???
However, tips are not wages.
See above reply to this.
Wages are based on being employed.
Correct.
Tips are based on the quality of service.
Theoretically, anyway.
If you were a waiter and didn't receive good tips, you have options. You can quit and find something else more to your liking or STFU.
Correct. They could also attempt to persuade people into what they consider to be "better tipping habits", although people might not be persuaded by their efforts. In the end, my opinions are simply my opinions, and yours yours, and the free market will take care of such issues one way or another.
Those that stay have no valid argument because it is their choice to do so.
Yes, they are not being forced to stay.
Wait staff does have an hourly wage attached to their job that they know before starting.
Correct.
You are equating wages and tips. They aren't the same.
No, I am not. You are simply refusing to view this particular bit through the eyes of the employee. While the employee's wages are TECHNICALLY different from their tips (especially through the eyes of the employer and the government), the employee's tips DO make up a rather large portion of their take home pay, so they tend to view their tips as EFFECTIVELY a part of their wages. --- I would view it the same way if I were a waiter.