Conservatives and War

Dixie said:
No I chose one of two candidates which could possibly win, and voted on the basis of their VP pick. Basically, all Libertarian voters did, was elect Obama.
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I recall your Palinite drooling. It was hillarious.
 
apple0154 said:
I think it's you who can't see through the smoke. Gay marriage is going to happen and become accepted. Abortion is going to stay legal. Make a little note to yourself so you can refer to this as the years pass.

Here's something you need to remember. People will fight stronger for freedom than they will to prevent others from having freedom because it directly affects them.

Put in terms you can understand gay marriage affects gay people more than it does the straight folks so the straight folks won't fight as hard to prevent it as the gays will to legalize it.

Did you follow that?

That's the problem with the conservatives. They fight against change and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

The same applies to medical coverage. They fought so long against it that people don't give a damn where they stand on it. The Dems are going to implement it in one form or another.

Like Obama and Biden the majority may not agree with gay marriage but it doesn't really affect them just as it doesn't affect any other married person so while they may not be for it they are not going to fight against it.

Now do you understand?
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Civil War didn't work out so well for the South in that regard.
 
From abortion to gay rights the conservatives keep growing further and further away from the general population. It can best be explained by saying the liberals represent the people whereas the conservatives insist on ruling the people.
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Let's recap the profound absurdity of this statement. It is actually the Democrats who are growing further away from the general population on gay marriage and partial birth abortion. Nearly 80% of Americans are opposed strongly to both. It can best be explained by saying the liberals want to force their agenda down the throats of America through judicial fiat, often overriding the will of the people at the ballot box. Conservatives represent the mainstream viewpoint of the people on both issues.

This is the sort of lies and distortion which is now a daily thing for liberals. You people just can't help the lies from tumbling out of your mouths every time they open, can you?
 
Threedee said:
Civil War didn't work out so well for the South in that regard.
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Why don't you get over your Civil War bullshit and join us in the 21st Century man? I mean, it happened 150 years ago, what the fuck are we supposed to do about it now? I mean honestly? Do you want all Southern people to commit mass suicide because they live in a region of the country that seceded from the Union over a century ago, or what? Just what exactly is your point of continually bringing up something that NONE OF US were around for?
 
TuTu Monroe said:
The left screams about waterboarding and torture, but it's okay to put a drill in a babies head in late-term abortions? Sheesh!!!
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Did you see the CNN special last week regarding late term abortions? A woman was told her fetus was grossly malformed. It was missing part of it's scalp and brain. Rather than end the pregnancy the woman bore the child and it lived for 12 hours. In the end she said it made two heavy gasps and died in her arms. When asked why she chose to bring such a child into the world she said it brought closure.

Closure!?!? She brought that child into the world and prolonged it's suffering so SHE could find closure!!! That has to be the most vile, disgusting thing I've ever heard.

On a more cheerful note how's Tu Tu doing today? :D
 
Dixie said:
Nope! You are now spinning away from your original idiotic point, and now admit I am right. The rest of your post is essentially saying... well, maybe it's not like I claimed now, but it will be someday!
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Once, again, you miss the point. The conservatives are not changing with the rest of society so society has dumped the conservatives.

As others have said the more the conservatives hang on to their antiquated base/philosophy/ideals/beliefs the further they will go into obscurity. As others have also said keep doing what you're doing. The Dems love it! :D
 
Dixie said:
Let's recap the profound absurdity of this statement. It is actually the Democrats who are growing further away from the general population on gay marriage and partial birth abortion. Nearly 80% of Americans are opposed strongly to both. It can best be explained by saying the liberals want to force their agenda down the throats of America through judicial fiat, often overriding the will of the people at the ballot box. Conservatives represent the mainstream viewpoint of the people on both issues.

This is the sort of lies and distortion which is now a daily thing for liberals. You people just can't help the lies from tumbling out of your mouths every time they open, can you?
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When was the last time a liberal forced someone to have an abortion? When was the last time the liberals forced a gay couple to marry?

It's the conservatives who insist on forcing people, preventing people from living their life they way they see fit. The word "freedom", when uttered by a conservative, must burn the tongue every time.
 
gay marrage and abortion are only on the top 5 list of the fading rightwingnuts.
IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
 
apple0154 said:
Did you see the CNN special last week regarding late term abortions? A woman was told her fetus was grossly malformed. It was missing part of it's scalp and brain. Rather than end the pregnancy the woman bore the child and it lived for 12 hours. In the end she said it made two heavy gasps and died in her arms. When asked why she chose to bring such a child into the world she said it brought closure.

Closure!?!? She brought that child into the world and prolonged it's suffering so SHE could find closure!!! That has to be the most vile, disgusting thing I've ever heard.

On a more cheerful note how's Tu Tu doing today? :D
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I have to agree with you on that one, but just drilling a hole in the head of a perfectly healthy baby, I consider it murder.

Tu Tu is doing great. Life has been good to her. Thanks for asking.
 
midcan5 said:
Socrtease, funny but that piece falls in-line with most of my impressions and assumptions about conservatives. I know so many who avoided the draft in one way or the other and yet supported the war (read illegal invasion) in Iraq. 'Love' may be a bit of exaggeration, but war (military buildups) is a part of their thinking, and for the religious right a part of Gawd's plan. Remember their magical hero Ronnie brought down Russian communism and all he did was buy weapons.

I would add one significant idea or analogy to his summation of conservatism. Conservatism cannot justify, hide, or engage in their rape of the land, law, and resources without pointing their crooked finger at liberalism. It is all they can do, distracting attention from their failure is their forte.

As a lefty socialist liberal, I support the draft as I feel citizens have a responsibility to the nation that provides them the wherewithal for an excellent life - which I have had partly because of the GI bill. It is duty rather than slavery. I part with the author on the caviler idea that individual freedom (whatever that may be to the person) leads to nirvana, anyone older that 12 knows that is BS.

As is well known here, I am also opposed to libertarian thought which I see as naive and selfish.

http://www.conservativenannystate.org/
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07232008.html
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I don't oppose Libertarianism. I just don't think it's a workable political philosophy. It sounds good on paper but it dont' work in the real world.
 
Dixie said:
There seems to be some misconceptions about why the Republicans lost power. If we take a really pragmatic look at the events since Reagan, it is clear, the Republican party became weak during the Clinton reign, and never corrected course. Since 1996, we have seen the Republicans slide to the middle, often with a contingent hell-bent on "going along to get along" with democrats. John McCain is the poster child for this movement.

When I talk to REPUBLICANS who disliked Bush, it was NOT because Bush was too right wing, or too socially conservative, it was because Bush was not conservative enough! The Pill Bill, spending more than the previous two Democrat presidents, letting Ted Kennedy define the Education Bill, abandoning vouchers, not balancing the budget... not being a conservative! I think many saw McCain as yet another degree away from Conservatism... we moved a degree away with Bush Sr., and another degree away with Bush Jr. and McCain represented yet another departure from conservative principles.

Now it seems we have all these "Libertarian" pinheads, telling us why we lost! Look, republicans aren't libertarians, and they aren't liberals, they are conservatives. You guys have your party, you have your ideology, stop trying to cajole republicans into something that doesn't define who they are. It should be obvious, no elections are going to be won by standing in the middle of the road and trying to be half-ass conservative and half-ass liberal at the same time, it simply doesn't work in politics.
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Dixie, there you go again playing Ostrich Politics. I read your post and in every case of each observation you made the reverse has been true. You're just burying your head in the sand and ignoring reality but hey, it's a free country. Go right ahead and believe what you want and see where it gets you.
 
Southern Man said:
I got slghtly further, to this, another lie: "War is not a last option, but a first priority for the Frum-Perle-Wolfowitz Axis of Aggression."

The fact is that war is simply a tool of diplomacy. Unless you're willing to have it ready you'll have a weak bargaining position with dictators and those who would like to do you harm. Only a fool would leave it off the table.
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I think you mixed up your metaphor. War is not a tool of diplomacy. War and Diplomacy are tools of Policy.
 
apple0154 said:
I think it's you who can't see through the smoke. Gay marriage is going to happen and become accepted. Abortion is going to stay legal. Make a little note to yourself so you can refer to this as the years pass.

Here's something you need to remember. People will fight stronger for freedom than they will to prevent others from having freedom because it directly affects them.

Put in terms you can understand gay marriage affects gay people more than it does the straight folks so the straight folks won't fight as hard to prevent it as the gays will to legalize it.

Did you follow that?

That's the problem with the conservatives. They fight against change and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

The same applies to medical coverage. They fought so long against it that people don't give a damn where they stand on it. The Dems are going to implement it in one form or another.

Like Obama and Biden the majority may not agree with gay marriage but it doesn't really affect them just as it doesn't affect any other married person so while they may not be for it they are not going to fight against it.

Now do you understand?
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LOL You don't have much experience debating Dixie, do you? LOL You make good points but some how I have a suspicion they will fail to win Dixie over. :)
 
apple0154 said:
Did you see the CNN special last week regarding late term abortions? A woman was told her fetus was grossly malformed. It was missing part of it's scalp and brain. Rather than end the pregnancy the woman bore the child and it lived for 12 hours. In the end she said it made two heavy gasps and died in her arms. When asked why she chose to bring such a child into the world she said it brought closure.

Closure!?!? She brought that child into the world and prolonged it's suffering so SHE could find closure!!! That has to be the most vile, disgusting thing I've ever heard.

On a more cheerful note how's Tu Tu doing today? :D
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This is what happens when lay people try to play God and Doctor. It results in needless human suffering.
 
apple0154 said:
When was the last time a liberal forced someone to have an abortion? When was the last time the liberals forced a gay couple to marry?

It's the conservatives who insist on forcing people, preventing people from living their life they way they see fit. The word "freedom", when uttered by a conservative, must burn the tongue every time.
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They do seem to have a problem with freedom as an applied concept, don't they?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
why not?
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Because it's based on a false concept. It doesn't recognize the transactional nature of politics and government. Because it places ideology above sound governance but most importantly because it has failed to ever effectively build a succesful coalition. In our political system successfull political parties are coalitions of often divergent interest who work and compromise to find common ground so as to advance a political and governing agenda that is mutually beneficial to those interest groups within that coalition. Libertarians have never, ever succeeded in building such a coalition. Until they do, and I doubt that they can, there pretty much politically irrelevent. The best bet for Libertarians is to join one of the major political parties as an organized interest group within that coalition. Examples would be how the Religious Right has influenced Republican politics or Labor the Democrats.

The most influential Libertarian politicians are Republicans. The Libertarian party has never done squat.
 
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