Critique of the Communist Manifesto

Yes it is so. I expected a response that would challenge my assertion but I don't mind talking to myself so here we go.

Poor people are not getting rich off capitalism.
Millennials don't have the same opportunity or fiscal security as their parents did.
The US and UK quash democratically elected socialist governments and install hand picked dictators. This is well documented.
Wall Street is about to crash the global economy for the 5th time in 30 years.
The federal reserve is insolvent.
Peterson should critique Capital but he won't because Marxism is pro-worker.

I can go on and on but it would be nice if someone tried to debunk these facts first.

Okay. It seems obvious to me that you don't understand what capitalism is. It is simply the creation of wealth by voluntary effort. It does not require any government to even exist for capitalism to exist. Anyone can play the game. All you need is initiative and drive. Absolutely NOTHING prevents a poor person from becoming rich except his own initiative and drive. You could even say that such almost chooses to be poor.

Money is not wealth. It is only a trade medium to conduct transactions. It's more convenient than barter.

So if money is not wealth, what is? It is the products and services that people provide to others. It is literally service to others. It is doing something or providing something to someone else that they are willing to pay for. What you provide is voluntarily paid for. If someone doesn't want to pay for your product or service, there is little point in providing it, is there? It is the public saying that your product or service has little value. It is not wanted.

In every market there is a phenomenon called price discovery. This is the rather difficult task of figuring out how much people are willing to pay for your product or service. You of course want people to pay as much as possible. People wanting your product or service want to pay as little as possible. Eventually you come together upon an agreed upon price. If that price is enough to satisfy you and your client, the transaction takes place.

The Federal Reserve is not capitalism. It is a form of socialism called fascism (government control of a market). The market in this case is the price of money. It is literally price controls on money itself...or the cost of borrowing it. As such, the Fed is constantly behind the market, and indeed mucks it up so badly that the money and loan markets are totally distorted. The result inevitably is crash after crash. It is the Fed that causes the crashes. It prints money whenever the government wants to cash a rubber check. If money is being printed faster than the wealth being created in the country, you have inflation. If it prints less, you have deflation. It always acts after the fact, so it's constantly wrong.

Socialism is not a government. Neither is capitalism. These are models of economics. While capitalism is creation of wealth, socialism is theft of wealth. It literally cannot exist without capitalism to steal from. Socialism takes two major forms: fascism, which is government control of markets, and communism, which is government ownership of markets.

Wall Street is not capitalism. It is a mixture. Much of it is pure speculation. It is gambling. Like any gambler, they often lose. The casino they use is the stock market and other financial instruments.

The United States was never a democracy. Neither was the UK. The UK has always been a monarchy or an oligarchy. The US was organized as a federated republic. That means a government by constitution. Democracies have no constitutions. There are currently no democracies anywhere in the world.
As for dictators, who are you suggesting is a dictator? The Constitution of the United States is the highest law of the land, and even the President and his office is defined and it's authority and power comes from that document. That's what constitutions do. They declare and define a government and give it specific authorities and powers. That government has NO authorities and powers beyond that. Any republic that goes beyond it's specifically designated authority and power is no longer a republic. It becomes an oligarchy or dictatorship.

Do oligarchies exist in the United States? Sure. Examples are the EPA, the Fed, the Education department, the Energy department, the Agriculture department, and many others. The Constitution of the United States never authorized the creation of these agencies nor empowered Congress nor the President to do so. Despite this, those that honor and support the Constitution of the United States exist in the federal government, even today (at least, what's left of it).

The States created the Constitution of the United States. They own it. Only they can change it. Only they can interpret it. Only they can choose to destroy it and thus dissolve the federal government that it creates and defines.

Does socialism exist in the United States? Sure. The fascism of the Fed is one example. The fascism of the EPA, the Education department, the BATF, etc. are others. Is Trump fascist? No. He is largely conservative. He supports the Constitution. He has made mistakes to be sure, but he is largely conservative. He wants to conserve and protect the republic of the United States.
Is Biden fascist? Yes. Quite definitely. He's even a communist over certain aspects. He does not recognize the Constitution of the United States nor the constitution of any State. Neither do the Democrats in general. It is Democrats that want to limit free speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, the right to trial by jury, and horn in on the sovereignty of the States.

You are right about the Fed. It is insolvent. It is broke. Its balance sheet is so out of what they have to print trillions for the government just to keep the whole drunken party barge floating at all. It cannot last. People are already starting to look for another currency. No government can stop that.

Right now the United States has capitalism, fascism, and communism all existing at the same time. This is true in most any nation you want to name. To implement socialism, which is theft of wealth, oligarchies and dictatorships are necessary because people don't like their wealth stolen.

Capitalism is the only system that creates wealth. It creates it out a few raw materials, and the voluntary efforts of those providing their services and products to their fellow man. Anyone can play. Rich and poor alike. It is the best chance the poor have to lift themselves out of poverty and to make something of themselves. Rags to riches stories abound. They are the essence of capitalism.


This post is necessarily long because you raised so many points to address, and I am taking the time to present my own reasoning and arguments, not copy and pasting from others. This IS philosophy. That is what philosophy is all about.
 
I didn't post this thread, retard. But, most philosophical discussions begin with Aristotle this, or Aquinas that.

No, they don't. Philosophy is simply presenting your OWN arguments and your OWN reasoning. It is nothing else. Even quoting Aristotle and using his arguments is NOT philosophy.
 
Okay. It seems obvious to me that you don't understand what capitalism is. It is simply the creation of wealth by voluntary effort. It does not require any government to even exist for capitalism to exist. Anyone can play the game. All you need is initiative and drive. Absolutely NOTHING prevents a poor person from becoming rich except his own initiative and drive. You could even say that such almost chooses to be poor.

Money is not wealth. It is only a trade medium to conduct transactions. It's more convenient than barter.

So if money is not wealth, what is? It is the products and services that people provide to others. It is literally service to others. It is doing something or providing something to someone else that they are willing to pay for. What you provide is voluntarily paid for. If someone doesn't want to pay for your product or service, there is little point in providing it, is there? It is the public saying that your product or service has little value. It is not wanted.

In every market there is a phenomenon called price discovery. This is the rather difficult task of figuring out how much people are willing to pay for your product or service. You of course want people to pay as much as possible. People wanting your product or service want to pay as little as possible. Eventually you come together upon an agreed upon price. If that price is enough to satisfy you and your client, the transaction takes place.

The Federal Reserve is not capitalism. It is a form of socialism called fascism (government control of a market). The market in this case is the price of money. It is literally price controls on money itself...or the cost of borrowing it. As such, the Fed is constantly behind the market, and indeed mucks it up so badly that the money and loan markets are totally distorted. The result inevitably is crash after crash. It is the Fed that causes the crashes. It prints money whenever the government wants to cash a rubber check. If money is being printed faster than the wealth being created in the country, you have inflation. If it prints less, you have deflation. It always acts after the fact, so it's constantly wrong.

Socialism is not a government. Neither is capitalism. These are models of economics. While capitalism is creation of wealth, socialism is theft of wealth. It literally cannot exist without capitalism to steal from. Socialism takes two major forms: fascism, which is government control of markets, and communism, which is government ownership of markets.

Wall Street is not capitalism. It is a mixture. Much of it is pure speculation. It is gambling. Like any gambler, they often lose. The casino they use is the stock market and other financial instruments.

The United States was never a democracy. Neither was the UK. The UK has always been a monarchy or an oligarchy. The US was organized as a federated republic. That means a government by constitution. Democracies have no constitutions. There are currently no democracies anywhere in the world.
As for dictators, who are you suggesting is a dictator? The Constitution of the United States is the highest law of the land, and even the President and his office is defined and it's authority and power comes from that document. That's what constitutions do. They declare and define a government and give it specific authorities and powers. That government has NO authorities and powers beyond that. Any republic that goes beyond it's specifically designated authority and power is no longer a republic. It becomes an oligarchy or dictatorship.

Do oligarchies exist in the United States? Sure. Examples are the EPA, the Fed, the Education department, the Energy department, the Agriculture department, and many others. The Constitution of the United States never authorized the creation of these agencies nor empowered Congress nor the President to do so. Despite this, those that honor and support the Constitution of the United States exist in the federal government, even today (at least, what's left of it).

The States created the Constitution of the United States. They own it. Only they can change it. Only they can interpret it. Only they can choose to destroy it and thus dissolve the federal government that it creates and defines.

Does socialism exist in the United States? Sure. The fascism of the Fed is one example. The fascism of the EPA, the Education department, the BATF, etc. are others. Is Trump fascist? No. He is largely conservative. He supports the Constitution. He has made mistakes to be sure, but he is largely conservative. He wants to conserve and protect the republic of the United States.
Is Biden fascist? Yes. Quite definitely. He's even a communist over certain aspects. He does not recognize the Constitution of the United States nor the constitution of any State. Neither do the Democrats in general. It is Democrats that want to limit free speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, the right to trial by jury, and horn in on the sovereignty of the States.

You are right about the Fed. It is insolvent. It is broke. Its balance sheet is so out of what they have to print trillions for the government just to keep the whole drunken party barge floating at all. It cannot last. People are already starting to look for another currency. No government can stop that.

Right now the United States has capitalism, fascism, and communism all existing at the same time. This is true in most any nation you want to name. To implement socialism, which is theft of wealth, oligarchies and dictatorships are necessary because people don't like their wealth stolen.

Capitalism is the only system that creates wealth. It creates it out a few raw materials, and the voluntary efforts of those providing their services and products to their fellow man. Anyone can play. Rich and poor alike. It is the best chance the poor have to lift themselves out of poverty and to make something of themselves. Rags to riches stories abound. They are the essence of capitalism.


This post is necessarily long because you raised so many points to address, and I am taking the time to present my own reasoning and arguments, not copy and pasting from others. This IS philosophy. That is what philosophy is all about.
I don't know where to start so let's try this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
From Investopedia
By Adam Hayes

Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble of the 1600s
At the height of the market, the rarest tulip bulbs traded for as much as six times the average person's annual salary. That means that the best of tulips cost upwards of $750,000 in today's money (but with many bulbs trading in the $50,000 - $150,000 range).

People began buying tulips with leverage - using margined derivatives contracts to buy more than they could afford. But as quickly as it began, confidence was dashed. By the end of the year 1637, prices began to fall and never looked back.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

You see where I'm going with this? 400 years of bubble and bust. You didn't have to know how to grow a tulip to make money. All the work was done by peasant servants who weren't properly compensated for their production. That's your theft of wealth right here. Owning ones production is the basis of Marxism. The workers producing the tulips should get a fair share of the profits. That would allow workers to be part and help stabilize the economy. Right now 75% of local money is funneled to Wall Street.
 
Yes it is so. I expected a response that would challenge my assertion but I don't mind talking to myself so here we go.

Poor people are not getting rich off capitalism.
Millennials don't have the same opportunity or fiscal security as their parents did.
The US and UK quash democratically elected socialist governments and install hand picked dictators. This is well documented.
Wall Street is about to crash the global economy for the 5th time in 30 years.
The federal reserve is insolvent.
Peterson should critique Capital but he won't because Marxism is pro-worker.

I can go on and on but it would be nice if someone tried to debunk these facts first.

The people are always PROMISED that Socialism is the answer and when the people vote in a Socialist Government, after the initial blush of victory wears off they are soon disappointed when they discover that Socialism is a cruel hoax and they are left worse off than they were before they were duped into voting it in.

Tell me how roasted dog tastes.

Ami Horowitz: What’s wrong with socialism?


 
The people are always PROMISED that Socialism is the answer and when the people vote in a Socialist Government, after the initial blush of victory wears off they are soon disappointed when they discover that Socialism is a cruel hoax and they are left worse off than they were before they were duped into voting it in.

Tell me how roasted dog tastes.

Ami Horowitz: What’s wrong with socialism?
Any system can be corrupted by politician and oligarchs. If the CIA stayed out of socialist countries, we'd see a lot more success in Latin America and Europe. We were told that Greece, Spain, and Italy went bankrupt because the workers are lazy and get too much of a pension. I can take a quick dive down that rabbit hole and post my findings here anytime I want.

I can back up my claim of 60 million unemployed, but let's say the economists are wrong and it's only 50 million or 40 million, those jobs are not coming back. We all know the next Wall Street crash is coming within the next 4 year but it may happen a lot sooner than that. We also know that a lot of Americans can't pay for their housing, utilities, or food.

When people fill the streets hungry and angry, will our militarized police brutalize and murder the people they are paid to serve and protect?
 
Any system can be corrupted by politician and oligarchs. If the CIA stayed out of socialist countries, we'd see a lot more success in Latin America and Europe. We were told that Greece, Spain, and Italy went bankrupt because the workers are lazy and get too much of a pension. I can take a quick dive down that rabbit hole and post my findings here anytime I want.

I can back up my claim of 60 million unemployed, but let's say the economists are wrong and it's only 50 million or 40 million, those jobs are not coming back. We all know the next Wall Street crash is coming within the next 4 year but it may happen a lot sooner than that. We also know that a lot of Americans can't pay for their housing, utilities, or food.

When people fill the streets hungry and angry, will our militarized police brutalize and murder the people they are paid to serve and protect?


How's Socialism Doing in Venezuela?




PragerU
2.89M subscribers

Venezuela is falling apart. Its economy? Ruined. Its people? Hungry. Its government? Corrupt. What happened? In a word, socialism. Debbie D'Souza, a native Venezuelan and political activist, explains.
 
I don't know where to start so let's try this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
From Investopedia
By Adam Hayes

Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble of the 1600s
At the height of the market, the rarest tulip bulbs traded for as much as six times the average person's annual salary. That means that the best of tulips cost upwards of $750,000 in today's money (but with many bulbs trading in the $50,000 - $150,000 range).

People began buying tulips with leverage - using margined derivatives contracts to buy more than they could afford. But as quickly as it began, confidence was dashed. By the end of the year 1637, prices began to fall and never looked back.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

You see where I'm going with this? 400 years of bubble and bust. You didn't have to know how to grow a tulip to make money. All the work was done by peasant servants who weren't properly compensated for their production. That's your theft of wealth right here. Owning ones production is the basis of Marxism. The workers producing the tulips should get a fair share of the profits. That would allow workers to be part and help stabilize the economy. Right now 75% of local money is funneled to Wall Street.

The reason you don't where to start is because you are still considering a worker a slave. They aren't. You apparently never read my post. Go back and read it.

Workers have a price for their services just like anything else. Their product is their expertise and willingness to do a job that someone else is willing to pay for. That's capitalism.
That worker can leave anytime they want to.

If workers are paid little, it's because there is a glut in the market for that worker. If you are untrained, only good for 'minimum wage' jobs, that's not the employers fault, that's yours. Go get yourself a skill that's marketable. Nothing is stopping you but your own initiative to do it.

You don't need a college degree to make lots of money. You just need to find a service you can provide that people are willing to pay more for. That's what capitalism is all about.

Wall street is not capitalism. It is gambling. Go back and read my post. Money isn't 'funneled' anywhere. Capitalism is the guy running the pharmacy on the corner. It's the gas station just down the road. It's the oil refineries that sell gasoline to that station. It's the oil drillers that supply oil to the refineries. All of it is capitalism, including the trucks to move it the product from place to place.
 
HOW ABOUT KOO-BAH?


#SocialismSucks

Everything You've Ever Seen About Cuba Is A Lie




Turning Point USA
382K subscribers

60 years ago, Communists seized power in Cuba and all private business and industry were nationalized and the Cuban people have lived under Socialism ever since.

Did the theft and redistribution of all wealth and property lead to prosperity and justice for the Cuban people? Many American Leftists would have you believe just that.

Turning Point USA traveled to Cuba to investigate the true realities of what a generation of full Socialism has done to the once-thriving Cuban population.

What did we discover? Everything you have ever seen about Cuba is a lie. #SocialismSucks
 
How's Socialism Doing in Venezuela?



PragerU
2.89M subscribers

Venezuela is falling apart. Its economy? Ruined. Its people? Hungry. Its government? Corrupt. What happened? In a word, socialism. Debbie D'Souza, a native Venezuelan and political activist, explains.
The US government did that. The Koch brothers wanted their oil and got it.
 
Any system can be corrupted by politician and oligarchs.
Sure.
If the CIA stayed out of socialist countries,
There is no such thing as a 'socialist country'. Socialism is not a form of government.
we'd see a lot more success in Latin America and Europe.
Who are 'we'? Do you have more than one personality? You can only speak for you. You cannot speak for others.
Who are you to judge 'success' anywhere? By what metric? Why is that metric valid?

Much of Mexico is racked by mobs and gangs, and a corrupt government. The people living there manage to do rather well despite that, considering the fear they have to live under.
Parts of Europe are doing well, others aren't.
We were told that Greece, Spain, and Italy went bankrupt because the workers are lazy and get too much of a pension.
The economies in these nations are largely communism or fascism. The governments of Greece, Spain, and Italy can't pay for their socialism any more. They are constantly begging from the Germans. The Germans are getting quite tired of it, too.
I can take a quick dive down that rabbit hole and post my findings here anytime I want.
Go ahead.
I can back up my claim of 60 million unemployed, but let's say the economists are wrong and it's only 50 million or 40 million, those jobs are not coming back.
Why should they? Do you insist, for example, that the job of making buggy whips should be widescale just because it once was?
We all know the next Wall Street crash is coming within the next 4 year
Nope. It's the Fed. I've already described this.
but it may happen a lot sooner than that.
Possibly.
We also know that a lot of Americans can't pay for their housing, utilities, or food.
Thank the Democrats for that. They were the ones that shut down businesses and business activity. Perhaps you've heard of the so-called Covid pandemic.
When people fill the streets hungry and angry, will our militarized police brutalize and murder the people they are paid to serve and protect?
No. The police aren't militarized, and they are losing their jobs left and right as well, again, thanks to the Democrats.

Crime rate is going up too.
 
The reason you don't where to start is because you are still considering a worker a slave. They aren't. You apparently never read my post. Go back and read it.

Workers have a price for their services just like anything else. Their product is their expertise and willingness to do a job that someone else is willing to pay for. That's capitalism.
That worker can leave anytime they want to.

If workers are paid little, it's because there is a glut in the market for that worker. If you are untrained, only good for 'minimum wage' jobs, that's not the employers fault, that's yours. Go get yourself a skill that's marketable. Nothing is stopping you but your own initiative to do it.

You don't need a college degree to make lots of money. You just need to find a service you can provide that people are willing to pay more for. That's what capitalism is all about.

Wall street is not capitalism. It is gambling. Go back and read my post. Money isn't 'funneled' anywhere. Capitalism is the guy running the pharmacy on the corner. It's the gas station just down the road. It's the oil refineries that sell gasoline to that station. It's the oil drillers that supply oil to the refineries. All of it is capitalism, including the trucks to move it the product from place to place.
A 4 year degree won't cut it in the 21st century. Our kids and grandkids need to have at least a masters or know someone who can get them an apprenticeship for a good paying union job. Let's get real, the US government wants our grandkids to join the military so they can prolong the collapse of the US empire by starting WWIII. History tells us what's coming.
 
Post away.

Nobody on JPP fits that description, AFAIK. You might as well expect a unicorn to watch it.

rofl.gif


Sad but true. It's an interesting little corner of the internet.

You'd have better luck seeing this:

rainbowfart.gif


Btw, that's a rainbow-farting unicorn. :D
 
The US government did that. The Koch brothers wanted their oil and got it.

You seem to be the resident apologist for Communism.

Tell us how America is to blame in these 40+ instances of Communism failing.

It's always AMERICA's fault, huh?


A list of countries where Communism HAS been tried.


It's true when people online and in colleges and universities in the west say that "Communism has never been tried".

They are right of course, Communism, which is based on Marx's Communist manifesto, has never been tried.

Except in Russia, China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Mongolia, Yemen, Czech Republic, Germany (East), Hungary, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Rep. of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia, Angola, Benin, Dem Rep. of Congo, Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea and Mozambique.


Other than those few times, Communism has NEVER been tried, and every time it was tried in any of those countries, it failed, miserably, and created an insane bloodthirsty dictatorship that tortured, gulaged, killed, stole fro and staved its own people.



The gross number that is estimated for the totality of people who were murdered, starved or just died thanks to Communism being implemented in their country, is around 100 million people.


The most disastrously effected country by Communism was the People's Republic of China, where under Mao Zedong some 45 – 60 million people were starved to death and murdered.


In the USSR, under Lenin and later Stalin, at least 50 million people were starved and murdered.


In Cambodia, under Pol Pot, one quarter of the whole population (some 2 million people) was starved and murdered.


In other countries like in Cuba and North Korea, the Communist dictators mainly used their absolutist power to accumulate huge personal wealth, while the local population was reduced to starving.


But all of this history and facts won't deter people, mainly young impressianble people online and in western university campuses who never been to a Communist country in their lives, to say that Communism has never been tried, and if it's tried just one more time it will definitely work this time.

https://www.dispropaganda.com/singl...-the-Communism-has-never-been-tried-statement
 
Return of the Pink Tide

US installed dictators in Latin America have failed to control Covid-19 and are now being voted out. Turns out that people like competent leaders and single-payer healthcare. Why is it that the drug trade and gun runners thrive under US backed, right-wing strongmen leaders? It's a simple question.

South America and Central America's Northern Triangle are begging Russia and China for help. US involvement is what caused the Pink Tide revival. The world has no other choice than to become partners with Moscow and Beijing. There is no avoiding WWIII and fall of the US empire. We got the government we deserve.
 
Could you list these "dictators" being "voted out" for us in say the last year or so?
Argentina's Mauricio Macri and Bolivia's Evo Morakes are out.
Ivan Duque in Colombia and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil are struggling to remain in power.
Ecuador and Chile are dealing with massive protests against austerity.
Nicolas Madura is still in power in Venezuela while Juan Guaido is in hiding.

Latin America has no other choice but to ask Moscow and Beijing for help with their fight against the CIA.
 
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