APP - 'Death panel' is not in the bill... it already exists

911America4EVER said:
Outside influence like decent information on the effectiveness of treatments?

Surely we should stop doing all medical research now. How dare the people who found out that antibiotics are an effective treatment get in the way of the doctors and patients decision to use leeches? How dare the people who found out that chemo was an effective treatment get in the way of the doctors and patients decision to pray to god and take pain pills?
Click to expand...

The effectiveness of treatments are something doctors find out through medical journals, seminars, consultations with other medical doctors and the like. In other words, that kind of relevent information is already available. The only reason for these "panels" is to ration care based on some yet to be clearly stated nefarious formula.
 
Ice Dancer said:
The effectiveness of treatments are something doctors find out through medical journals, seminars, consultations with other medical doctors and the like.
Click to expand...

LOL. And where do the journals get their information? Through studies. This sponsors a billion dollars in new medical research - and it directly compares the effectiveness of several treatments in a controlled setting, which is important information that isn't usually provided in the initial study. I assure you, the doctors and medical professionals who've been asking for this for years know more about the issue than you do.

Ice Dancer said:
The only reason for these "panels" is to ration care based on some yet to be clearly stated nefarious formula.
Click to expand...

ZOMG?! YOU MEAN IT'S A CONSPIRACY?!
 
911America4EVER said:
LOL. And where do the journals get their information? Through studies. This sponsors a billion dollars in new medical research - and it directly compares the effectiveness of several treatments in a controlled setting, which is important information that isn't usually provided in the initial study. I assure you, the doctors and medical professionals who've been asking for this for years know more about the issue than you do.



ZOMG?! YOU MEAN IT'S A CONSPIRACY?!
Click to expand...

That's right dork, they already get the information and any panel is both redundant and and is therefor useless, except to ration care. This means they are created to tell a doctor what he can and cannot do for patient B. As I said earlier this is no ones business except the patient and his doctor.

The formula for limiting care has yet to be clarified, but Obama's friends and advisors lend a pretty fair idea as to what that formula will be.

Not a conspiracy, merely a government takeover of health care.
 
Fish said:
So your solution to health care for those who can't afford it is to just wait until you get really sick and go to the emergency room?
Click to expand...

Doesn't that cost Americans MORE, then? Sheesh, conservatives, follow the money.
 
911America4EVER said:
What an amazing dodge. First you claim that this bill is going to create a death panel, then when it's pointed out that you're an idiot, you go and throw out a red herring and pretend some other entirely different program has simialirities to the death panel.

Of course, all the comparative effectiveness panel does is research. It tries to find out which treatments are effective and which aren't. Then it gives this information to doctors. It has no power to make any of its research mandatory. But it will save hundreds of thousands of lives over the years.

This panel should be called the life panel. It's definitely one of the best parts of the stimulus bill.
Click to expand...

Do I hear echos of Sarah Palin in her posts?
 
Ice Dancer said:
Yes it does. You have certainly provided no argument to support the contrary.
Click to expand...

I don't have to prove the negative. You're the one that has to prove your claim. And so far your ramblings are nothing but the insane conspiracy theories of an insane, outdated, dying ideology.

This is health research. Nothing more. If it were useless information, it would be as useless to rationing as it is to doctors for guiding them as to how they can best treat their patient.

The fact is, what we have right now is rationing. It's rationing based on who has money. And isn't that just as disgusting? That is, in fact, more disgusting, because it doesn't take into account how much you NEED the medical care, unlike Germany, it merely takes into account how big your checkbook is. So more people die.
 
Why is it that every time a rightie makes some stupid conspiracy claim, it's up to the liberals to disprove it rather than for them to back it up with facts? They have everything turned exactly around.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Why is it that every time a rightie makes some stupid conspiracy claim, it's up to the liberals to disprove it rather than for them to back it up with facts? They have everything turned exactly around.
Click to expand...

Why is it lefties are unable to digest facts at face value and call them "conspiracy theories" when they are unable to debate the facts.
 
911America4EVER said:
I don't have to prove the negative. You're the one that has to prove your claim. And so far your ramblings are nothing but the insane conspiracy theories of an insane, outdated, dying ideology.

This is health research. Nothing more. If it were useless information, it would be as useless to rationing as it is to doctors for guiding them as to how they can best treat their patient.

The fact is, what we have right now is rationing. It's rationing based on who has money. And isn't that just as disgusting? That is, in fact, more disgusting, because it doesn't take into account how much you NEED the medical care, unlike Germany, it merely takes into account how big your checkbook is. So more people die.
Click to expand...

What we have right now is private health care that needs to be better regulated. There are a number of great ideas on just how to do that along with other ideas to incentivize healthy competition, reduce taxes for employers who provide health care, as well as individuals who buy into programs.

The fact that the Obama Admin. Misrepresenting numerous facts in order to pass the largest piece of new policy legislation ever, is a pretty big deal and your sophomoric swill that you espouse in support of it only underscores that point.
 
No. They are in the business to make as much money as they can and to avoid malpractice suits.

It has been decades since I encountered a physician who actually had the patient's best care as his/her primaray focus.

I work in the health care industry, babe, and it is a sewer.

Ice Dancer said:
Because doctors are not in business to ration health care, they are in the business to provide their patients the best possible care unique to their needs.
Click to expand...
 
egordon0315 said:
No. They are in the business to make as much money as they can and to avoid malpractice suits.

It has been decades since I encountered a physician who actually had the patient's best care as his/her primaray focus.

I work in the health care industry, babe, and it is a sewer.
Click to expand...


I'm not your babe...thank gawd :( I have not had that experience with my two doctors, one a woman and one a man. If I did feel that when I was in the exam room, that their focus was not on my care, I'd get a new a doctor.

Of course I am not in an HMO which is the closest example of a government system should we get one, though I believe it will be more like an HMO on steroids.

Working "in the health care industry" at a university does not an expert make you. You have a very small window of experience in the giant sea of the "health care" industry. I have a half dozen friends in the "health care industry" who have different perspectives from you and even from one another.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top