APP - 'Death panel' is not in the bill... it already exists

Ice Dancer said:
Because doctors are not in business to ration health care, they are in the business to provide their patients the best possible care unique to their needs.
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You are not getting my point. If Obama wanted to ration healthcare, why wouldn't he just use the information that already exists if it already exists? Your claims contradict each other. You both believe that the information is already out there anyway and that it's useful for rationing healthcare. But if it were already out there, they'd use that information.
 
Ice Dancer said:
What we have right now is private health care that needs to be better regulated. There are a number of great ideas on just how to do that along with other ideas to incentivize healthy competition, reduce taxes for employers who provide health care, as well as individuals who buy into programs.

The fact that the Obama Admin. Misrepresenting numerous facts in order to pass the largest piece of new policy legislation ever, is a pretty big deal and your sophomoric swill that you espouse in support of it only underscores that point.
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The "sophomric swill"? Such as cold, hard fact?

You guys live in a universe in which evidence is useless for proving something. I am frankly scared of your viewpoint. The mentally ill shouldn't have the ability to vote.

As for the health reform, it's alright, but it would make more sense to extend medicare to all Americans.
 
911America4EVER said:
You are not getting my point. If Obama wanted to ration healthcare, why wouldn't he just use the information that already exists if it already exists? Your claims contradict each other. You both believe that the information is already out there anyway and that it's useful for rationing healthcare. But if it were already out there, they'd use that information.
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Because maybe he wants to ration more, based on different assumptions that not even the private industry is willing and or able to go? Have you bothered to read some of the ideas of his so called advisors and associates on the matter? Do you know what a QUARY is? Are you really paying attention to what he is actually putting forth? Not to mention that just because it is being done to varying degrees in HMO's does not mean we should embrace the idea of having our government doing it!
 
911America4EVER said:
The "sophomric swill"? Such as cold, hard fact?

You guys live in a universe in which evidence is useless for proving something. I am frankly scared of your viewpoint. The mentally ill shouldn't have the ability to vote.

As for the health reform, it's alright, but it would make more sense to extend medicare to all Americans.
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You're too stupid to be scared of anything. Facts were provided. You failed to argue against them. You have tried several times justifying their veracity and denying them as well...pick a square and land on it dude.
 
Ice Dancer said:
You're too stupid to be scared of anything. Facts were provided. You failed to argue against them. You have tried several times justifying their veracity and denying them as well...pick a square and land on it dude.
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How can you even say that I failed to argue against your "facts"? Are you even paying attention to what I'm saying?

Of course not. It goes through the filter in your brain that deletes everything that isn't conservative brainwashing.
 
911America4EVER said:
How can you even say that I failed to argue against your "facts"? Are you even paying attention to what I'm saying?

Of course not. It goes through the filter in your brain that deletes everything that isn't conservative brainwashing.
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I can say it because you failed to argue against the facts presented.
 
911America4EVER said:
You are not getting my point. If Obama wanted to ration healthcare, why wouldn't he just use the information that already exists if it already exists? Your claims contradict each other. You both believe that the information is already out there anyway and that it's useful for rationing healthcare. But if it were already out there, they'd use that information.
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Nobody believes he WANTS to ration it, just that it is the rational end product of government panels that deal with cost choices.
 
Is anyone disappointed in Damo's level of honestly lately? I find it impossible to believe he's ignorant enough to think that shit is true.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Is anyone disappointed in Damo's level of honestly lately? I find it impossible to believe he's ignorant enough to think that shit is true.
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dude....you and your boyfriend waterdick are always on here spouting meadowmuffins....the extreme of the extreme....why you feel you are justified in making such a statement as if you are innocent is beyond me.....

i am not sure he is dishonest....i think damo and semitruckprophet are reading stuff with thick glasses....i wouldn't call it dishonest at this point....to do so is stupid as no one really know WTF this bill is about and even obama is changing his stance as the days go by....

so chill out and have an honest discussion instead of your wannabe cobain angst moments you and waterstank like to have....
 
911America4EVER said:
This isn't "a government panel that deals with cost choices". This is a government panel that deals with health research.
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It doesn't matter what "this" panel is for, there is a panel that deals in cost, and that is where rationing will begin. Just like it does for companies for that matter. At some point we make choices on whether it is cost effective to do certain things. Even Obama was talking about his G-ma's hip surgery and wondering if it is right to give hip surgery to a dying patient...

At some point we deal with these ideas. People just don't want the government with that power, they prefer to be able to sue if the wrong choices are made.
 
Yurt said:
and there are no panels with private insurance?
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Read the rest of what I posted.

At some point we make choices on whether it is cost effective to do certain things. Even Obama was talking about his G-ma's hip surgery and wondering if it is right to give hip surgery to a dying patient...

At some point we deal with these ideas. People just don't want the government with that power, they prefer to be able to sue if the wrong choices are made.
 
Damocles said:
Read the rest of what I posted.

At some point we make choices on whether it is cost effective to do certain things. Even Obama was talking about his G-ma's hip surgery and wondering if it is right to give hip surgery to a dying patient...

At some point we deal with these ideas. People just don't want the government with that power, they prefer to be able to sue if the wrong choices are made.
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so your problem is only the exemption from a lawsuit? and i did read what you posted...how does that counter anything i questioned or said?
 
Yurt said:
so your problem is only the exemption from a lawsuit? and i did read what you posted...how does that counter anything i questioned or said?
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So far you haven't really asked much except whether the panels exist in private coverage, and yes they do. I was pointing out why they are less worrisome to some of the people. I simply gave information, not opinion.

My objections are outside of all of this and deal with the amount of information we are willing to give to the government in order to ensure "safety" in this arena. I believe that we are waltzing into a "voluntary" release of rights that we should far more carefully maintain.

We can make a plan that will do all of this without centralizing control and data with the government.
 
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