Deathcare Preview: Babies sentenced to death by the NHS

I Love America said:
You appear to be severely mentally disabled maybe we should euthanize you. What makes you think you can decide life or death for another human being?

I bet you are against the death penalty but first in line to kill a baby.
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What makes you so atttracted to the suffering of infants? Check out a hospital specializing in the "treatment" of severely disabled children. I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself.
 
apple0154 said:
Let's hope people smarten up and legalize euthanasia. While I certainly don't condone starvation or dehydration neither do I condone keeping severely disabled babies alive for a short period of time while they continue to suffer and have what amounts to medical experiments done to them. While it may be considered doing all one can to preserve life the truth is, in many cases, it's nothing short of experimental.
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I can't condone euthanasia, it is the start of a very slippery slope to a Logan's Run world.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Cerebral Palsy is a severly disabling disease that is characterised by abnormal muscle tone, posture (i.e. slouching over while sitting), reflexes, or motor development and coordination. There can be joint and bone deformities and contractures (permanently fixed, tight muscles and joints). The classical symptoms are spasticity, spasms, other involuntary movements (e.g. facial gestures), unsteady gait, problems with balance, and/or soft tissue findings consisting largely of decreased muscle mass.

Babies born with severe CP often have an irregular posture; their bodies may be either very floppy or very stiff. Birth defects, such as spinal curvature, a small jawbone, or a small head sometimes occur along with CP. Symptoms may appear, change, or become more severe as a child gets older. Some babies born with CP do not show obvious signs right away.

I guess you would have had the following people euthanized:

Abbey Nicole Curran - (born 1987) - Abbey Curran represented Iowa at the Miss USA 2008 pageant in Las Vegas, held on April 11, 2008. Curran was born with Cerebral Palsy. She and has made an appearance on The Ellen DeGeneres Show, CBS The Early Show, Inside Edition, Access Hollywood, Extra, and CNN Headline News. Curran is the current chairman of her own non-profit pageant "The Miss You Can Do It Pageant" for young girls and women with special needs and challenges. Diagnosed at age 2, Abbey Curran wants other girls like her to know they can compete like anyone else.

Anne McDonald - (11 January 1961 - 22 October 2010) - An Australian author and an activist for the rights of people with communication disability. As a result of a birth injury she developed severe athetoid cerebral palsy. She was diagnosed as having severe intellectual disability and at the age of three was placed by her parents in St. Nicholas Hospital, Melbourne, a Health Commission (government) institution for people with severe disability, and lived there without education or therapy for eleven years. Anne wrote her story in Annie's Coming Out, a book she co-authored with Rosemary Crossley in 1980 (the film Annie's Coming Out based on the book won several Australian Film Institute awards and was released in the U.S. under the title Test of Love).

Bonner Paddock - Born with Cerebral Palsy, Bonner Paddock lived his early years playing sports as if he didn't have a disability at all. He was not accurately diagnosed until the age of 11, and even received news he not might make to his 20th birthday. As an adult with cerebral palsy, he became the first person with Cerebral Palsy to reach the summit of the tallest freestanding mountain in the world, Mt. Kilimanjaro, unassisted, to demonstrate that life without limits is possible. This achievement was documented in the film Beyond Limits, narrated by Michael Clarke Duncan in 2009. Bonner tackled the climb with the determination and vigor that has defined his life. OM Foundation (OMF) is the progression of Bonner Paddock's overall mission, which had little to do with individual success and everything to do with aiding others in constructing the first learning center to serve children with and without disabilities in Orange County and across the globe - http://1man1mission.org

Chris Fonseca - Comedian. Works the American comedy club circuit and has written material for such comedians as Jerry Seinfeld, Jay Leno and Roseanne Arnold. Chris Fonseca is the first (and only) person with a visible disability to entertain on The Late Night Show with David Letterman, something that had not been done in the show's 18 year history. Chris allows his Cerebral Palsy to be the foundation of many of his stories. He notes that this helps to break down many preconceived barriers about CP. He has released 2 CDs, 1997's Not Tonight, I Have Cerebral Palsy and 2001's Get in the Van.

Chris Nolan - (6 September 1965 - 20 February 2009) - Christopher Nolan is an Irish author. He moved to Dublin for an education.He was educated at the Central Remedial Clinic School, Mount Temple Comprehensive School and at Trinity College, Dublin. He was born with cerebral palsy, from birth complications, and writes using a special computer. He had been deprived of oxygen for two hours when he was born, but his mother believed he could understand what was going on and used to teach him at home. Eventually, they discovered a drug that allowed him to move one muscle in his neck so they attached this unicorn device to his forehead and he learned to type. Nolan has never spoken or signed a word in his life, yet his poetry has been compared to that of Joyce, Keats, and Yeats. At fifteen, his first book Dam-Burst of Dreams was accepted for publication.

Christy Brown - (June 5, 1932 - September 6, 1981) was an Irish author, painter and poet. The Academy Asard winning film My Left Foot profiled his life. Christy Brown had cerebral palsy and was incapable for years of deliberate movement or speech. Doctors considered him to be mentally disabled as well. However, his mother continued to speak to him, work with him, and try to teach him until he famously snatched a piece of chalk from his sister with his left foot to make a mark on the floor. He was about five years old and only his left foot responded to his will. His mother then taught him the alphabet and he laboriously copied each letter, holding chalk between his toes. He learned to spell out words and finally to read.

Dan Keplinger - (19 Jan 1973) Artist with cerebral palsy - Featured in the Oscar-winning documentary short, King Gimp. After attending a school for disabled children, he was mainstreamed into Parkville High School in Maryland at age 16. He is a 1998 graduate of Towson University with a major in mass communication. Dan visits schools as a guest motivational speaker. He shows that with some determination, you can achieve anything you desire. Keplinger says this about his art - "At a glance my work seems to be about my perception in society and how I overcome it. I include images of my wheelchair because it is my main mode of conveyance and a major part of my daily life, but these pieces are about much more than my disability. Obstacles and challenges are a universal part of the human condition. We all face them in everyday life, however we also have a choice as to how we deal with them. Many of us are likely to get discouraged during difficult times in our lives. In my work I hope to show everybody that they have the ability to persevere. When I start a piece, I just think of what I have to say and not who is going to view it. I know people are not going to view my work as I do, but everyone can get the overall message."

Dr. Janice Brunstrom - Pediatric neurologist specializing in Cerebral Palsy at St. Louis Children's Hospital and Washington University. She is the only pediatric neurologist in the U.S. who also has Cerebral Palsy, and she is one of the leading scientists in CP research. She started and leads the only comprehensive pediatric CP Center in the country. One of her causes includes correcting common misconceptions about cerebral palsy including the following: Cerebral palsy is hopeless; Cerebral palsy means low intelligence; Children with cerebral palsy do not need to stand; Strengthening their spastic muscles will make them worse; and Physicians cannot do anything about these children's vision problems.

Eric Gores - (born 1983) - Gores was educated in Holland, Michigan. He attended West Ottawa High School and graduated in 2004. The son of billionaire Alec Gores and former neighbor of actor Tom Arnold. In 2005, Gores co-starred in a film written by Arnold, The Kid & I. Eric was born with cerebral palsy. Gores wanted to be an actor since age 6, when he entertained his sisters by mimicking TV personalities. He refused to allow anything, including cerebral palsy, to prevent his dream from coming true.

Geri Jewell - (born September 13, 1956) - Comedian and Actress. Appeared on The Facts of Life television show. Geri Jewell is an actor and comedian born with cerebral palsy. She is most famous for her roles on the television program The Facts of Life. and on HBO's Deadwood. Geri brings to her presentations personal experience of having her behavior and actions misunderstood because of her cerebral palsy. Geri Jewell is said to be a pioneer for comedians with disabilities.

Hermann of Reichenau - (1013 July 18 - 1054 September 24) - also called Hermannus Contractus or Hermannus Augiensis or Herman the Cripple. 11th century scholar, composer, music theorist, mathematician, and astronomer. He composed the Marian prayer Alma Redemptoris Mater. He was beatified in 1863. He was crippled by a paralytic disease from early childhood. He was born with a cleft palate, cerebral palsy and spina bifida. As a result, he had great difficulty moving and could hardly speak.

Jerry Traylor - A motivational speaker with cerebral palsy. He is the only person to jog across America on crutches. Traylor underwent 14 corrective surgeries and spent nearly a year in the hospital when he was 6 years old. When crutches replaced the braces holding his legs at age 14, Traylor said he experienced a sense of freedom that was unbelievable. Traylor has also participated in the running of 35 marathons, climbed to the top of 14,110 foot Pike's Peak, parachuting and other adventures.

Jhamak Ghimire - (born July 1980) - A poet and writer from Nepal who has won many awards for her writing of literature. Jhamak Ghimire is Nepal's equal of Helen Keller. Born in 1980 with cerebral palsy, Ghimire's desire led her to learn to read and write. She went on to become one of the leading and well respected literary figures of Nepal. She has also become a symbol of courage to people with disabilities around the world.

John Quinn - In his debut release Someone Like Me - An Unlikely Story of Challenge and Triumph Over Cerebral Palsy, John tells the incredible story of despite being born with cerebral palsy, how he pursued his boyhood dream of a career in the United States Navy. John kept his CP a secret during his entire military career. John's powerful story of overcoming numerous life challenges has enthralled audiences around the country. A natural storyteller, John's ability to connect with any audience sets him apart - www.johnwquinn.com

Josh Blue - (born November 27, 1978) is an American comedian who was voted the Last Comic Standing on NBC's reality show Last Comic Standing during its fourth season, which aired May-August, 2006. Josh Blue has cerebral palsy and many of his jokes center on living with his disability, how he deals with it and how other people view him. He coined the term "palsy punch" during his final set of the final round of the show, when he said that the palsy punch is effective in a fight because "first of all, they don't know where the punch is coming from, and second of all, neither do I." Blue also joked that signing an autograph takes 45 minutes, and that to write down his phone number he has to find a "big ole' stack of paper." More information on Josh Blue - The Comedian with Cerebral Palsy. You can also view several video clips of Josh Blue.

Karen Ann Killilea - (born August 18, 1940) - is the subject of two bestselling books by her mother Marie Killilea, Karen and With Love from Karen. These books were groundbreaking in their assertion that children with cerebral palsy could be raised to lead productive lives. Karen Killilea was born three months prematurely and as a result of her prematurity, she developed cerebral palsy. After she was diagnosed, Karen's parents decided to actively raise her at home, contrary to the advice of doctors to commit her to an asylum and forget her. After visiting at least 23 doctors, they found one who taught them to do physical therapy with Karen (then a radical concept), which they did for six hours per day for over ten years. Karen learned to walk with crutches, write, and use her arms and legs. She developed into a fairly happy teen and adult who has been living independently and working for decades. As explained in Marie Killilea's book "Karen" and the sequel "With Love From Karen," the Killilea family chose to raise Karen at home instead with as normal a life as possible, and proved that children with cerebral palsy can live normal lives and need not be mentally impaired.

Michael Kutcher - Kutcher, who has cerebral palsy, is an avowed political junkie. By age three, Michael battled significant developmental delays due to his neurological issues. He was diagnosed with cerebral palsy before he entered school. Despite the odds, Michael graduated from Clear Creek Amana High School, alongside his twin brother. In 2010, Michael began to follow his passion for CP advocacy supporting CP specific research and awareness for "Reaching For Stars". His signature ability to succeed is evident in his recent work with "Reaching for the Stars" raising political awareness on Capitol Hill, fund raising on a national and local level, and speaking on behalf of RFTS at various events including the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention.

Nicolas Hamilton - Nicolas faces a greater challenge than most in trying to break into the ultra-competitive world of motor racing because he has cerebral palsy - a condition which leads to severe problems with movement, posture and co-ordination. Nicolas Hamilton is an inspiration to others. "Nic's always been very determined," his mum Linda, step-mother to Lewis said. "We've not wrapped him in cotton wool. He's gone on and done things for himself. He'll just push and push and he'll achieve what he wants to achieve." Despite his hectic schedule, Nic recently found time to join the Disabled Motoring UK team on an epic profile raising challenge, driving from the UK, through France, across the Alps, and back again in a 1932 Argson, 2 stroke, mobility trike.

RJ Mitte - Roy Frank "RJ" Mitte III - (born August 21, 1992) - An American actor. He is best known for his role as Walter White Jr. on the AMC television series, Breaking Bad. In 2006 RJ Mitte moved to Hollywood and began training with personal talent manager Addison Witt. RJ has mild cerebral palsy. Addison states that it was RJ's diligence and attitude that has helped him overcome challenges in all areas of his life.

Ruth Sienkiewicz-Mercer (September 23, 1950 - August 8, 1998) - A quadriplegic and American disability rights activist Sienkiewicz-Mercer was born in Northampton, Massachusetts. She was a healthy baby, but was afflicted with a severe bout of encephalitis at the age of five weeks. She is best known for her autobiography I Raise My Eyes to Say Yes, co-authored with Steven B. Kaplan. At thirteen months, she was diagnosed with cerebral palsy resulting from the encephalitis. Her control over her entire body, except for her face and digestive system, was severely impaired; though not completely paralyzed, she could not care for herself or communicate through speech as most people know it. Due to her inability to communicate normally, she was diagnosed as an imbecile at the age of five.

Steady Eddie - (born 7 December 1968) - Australian Comedian. Steady Eddy is the stage name of Christopher Widdows, an Australian comedian and actor with Cerebral palsy. Widdows used his disability as the basis for his comedy. Eddy started at the International Melbourne Comedy Festival where has was rewarded with a Young Australian Achievers Award and has since toured the UK, Canada and USA, released a big-selling CD and video and won two MO Awards and an ARIA for Best Comedy Recording. Video clip of Australian comedian Steady Eddy.

Stephen Hopkins - (March 7, 1707 - July 13, 1785) - Stephen Hopkins was born in Scituate (then a part of Providence), Rhode Island. He attended the first Continental Congress in 1774, and was a party to the Declaration of Independence in 1776. He recorded his name with a trembling right hand, which he had to guide with his left. Hopkins had cerebral palsy, and was noted to have said, as he signed the Declaration, "My hand trembles, my heart does not."

Stephen Wampler - Born with a severe form of cerebral palsy, Steve Wampler set out to climb the biggest rock face in the world; El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, not for himself but to inspire all kids with physical disabilities and to prove that anything can be accomplished. "Over the years, I've learned to not only live with my disability, but to thrive, and I want to ensure that others have the same opportunity." Further information regarding Steve Wampler and The Wampler Foundation.

Thomas Ritter - Attorney and former UCPA Board of Directors. Brother of Actor John Ritter. Father, Tex Ritter, helped start United Cerebral Palsy Associations, Inc. Thomas Ritter was born with cerebral palsy. In 1979, his brother, John Ritter, helped raise money for the disease.


http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/cp-famous.shtml
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Obviously it depends on the severity of the disorder. Take spina bifida, for example, caused be the incomplete closing of the embryonic neural tube. I worked for a company that employed a receptionist who had that disorder and she was one "hot" gal!

Then we have anencephaly which is also caused by the incomplete closing of the neural tube.

230px-Anencephaly_front.jpg

I guess you would support doing all we can to prolong the life of that baby.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I can't condone euthanasia, it is the start of a very slippery slope to a Logan's Run world.
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I don't adhere to the slippery slope arguments. What law or practice or right couldn't become a slippery slope?

(Excerpt).....the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right......the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."......However, the Supreme Court did not invest the federal government with the authority to protect freedom of movement. Under the "privileges and immunities" clause, this authority was given to the states....(End) (Wiki.org)

I suppose a state could place speed limits at one (1) mph. And considering horses and buggys are not permitted on most highways not too many people would be able to leave a state unless they walked out taking nothing but the clothes on their back.

Just saying.
 
apple0154 said:
I don't adhere to the slippery slope arguments. What law or practice or right couldn't become a slippery slope?

(Excerpt).....the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right......the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."......However, the Supreme Court did not invest the federal government with the authority to protect freedom of movement. Under the "privileges and immunities" clause, this authority was given to the states....(End) (Wiki.org)

I suppose a state could place speed limits at one (1) mph. And considering horses and buggys are not permitted on most highways not too many people would be able to leave a state unless they walked out taking nothing but the clothes on their back.

Just saying.
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I could easily envisage a situation where relatives get a cooperative doctor(s) to sign off a euthanasia certificate to get their grubby hands on an inheritance.
 
Rokin Kat said:
Lets keep the defective reproducing.

Long live the republican party!
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Lets keep the defective reproducing, long may the liberal welfare rolls grow!!

Clearly the NHS the fanatical totalitarians want is shown to be a sack of shit, but that's not relevant.
They want it and that's it!!

Even if it can only fail!
 
007 said:
Lets keep the defective reproducing, long may the liberal welfare rolls grow!!

Clearly the NHS the fanatical totalitarians want is shown to be a sack of shit, but that's not relevant.
They want it and that's it!!

Even if it can only fail!
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You seem like an immensely bitter man, maybe you should find a psychiatrist to help you?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
You seem like an immensely bitter man, maybe you should find a psychiatrist to help you?
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Bitter?
No, helpfull.
All the ideas the liberals in the USA wish to force on the American people have been seen to fail Elswhere.
The NHS for example is a miserable failure, the USA has the best healthcare on earth, for those who choose it!

Pity the arrogance of liberals disallows them from learning from history, their theories are above reality!
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I could easily envisage a situation where relatives get a cooperative doctor(s) to sign off a euthanasia certificate to get their grubby hands on an inheritance.
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The other side of the coin is some people don't want to be kept alive. A solution would be to insist everyone have a living will or a panel composed of, say, 3 doctors.

One example was my aunt. She never married. Lived alone until she was almost 88. She had a lady come by to make her lunch/dinner and do a few chores for an hour or so every day. She made us (my mother (her sister), my brother and I promise to never put her in a home. We told her something could happen and no one would know until the next day. She didn't care. She never wanted to go to a "home".

One day the lady was over doing a few things and my aunt had a blood vessel rupture in her stomach. She was taken to hospital and operated on. There were complications. A week or so later the doctor told us she would never be going home again to live alone. After the necessary bed rest she wouldn't have the strength to walk again assuming everything else worked out OK. Her destination, assuming she lived, was an old folks home. So, the doctor asked, "What do you want us to do? Do you want to keep her alive or let her go?"

The decision was left up to my brother and I. For me, there was no choice. We made a promise. Not once. Not twice. But any and every time a show might come on TV or a conversation arose concerning the elderly and convalescent/retirement homes and my aunt always saying the same thing. "Don't put me in a home."

She died two days later.

My mother had re-occurring cancer. The instructions were DNR, do not resuscitate.

There's no reason a policy can't be put in place with a living will, to start. Especially in a country with government medical. Almost everyone sees a doctor at some point. Furthermore, with computerized records a doctor and/or receptionist could easily check if a patient has a living will. Give the patient one to fill out and drop off and explain if such a will is not recorded on their file there will come a time when treatment for non life-threatening illnesses will be withheld. If one wants to see a doctor they have to have a living will on file. Free. No charge. But mandatory.
 
007 said:
Lets keep the defective reproducing, long may the liberal welfare rolls grow!!

Clearly the NHS the fanatical totalitarians want is shown to be a sack of shit, but that's not relevant.
They want it and that's it!!

Even if it can only fail!
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Fail? Check the life expectancy chart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Life expectancy at birth (years)
Rank state/territory Overall Male Female
1 Japan 82.7 79.0 86.1
2 Hong Kong 82.2 79.4 85.1
3 Israel 82.0 80.0 84.0
4 Italy 82.0 79.4 84.5
5 Iceland 81.8 80.2 83.3
6 Australia 81.2 78.9 83.6
7 Singapore 81.0 79.0 83.0
8 Spain 80.9 77.7 84.2
9 Sweden 80.9 78.7 83.0
10 Macau 80.7 78.5 82.8
11 France (metropolitan) 80.7 77.1 84.1
12 Canada 80.7 78.3 82.9
13 New Zealand 80.2 78.2 82.2
14 Norway 80.2 77.8 82.5
15 United Kingdom 80.1 78.1 82.1
16 Austria 79.8 76.9 82.6
17 Netherlands 79.8 77.5 81.9
18 Martinique ( France) 79.5 76.5 82.3
19 Greece 79.5 77.1 81.9
20 Belgium 79.4 76.5 82.3
21 Malta 79.4 77.3 81.3
22 Germany 79.4 76.5 82.1
23 U.S. Virgin Islands ( US) 79.4 75.5 83.3
24 Finland 79.3 76.1 82.4
25 Guadeloupe ( France) 79.2 76.0 82.2
26 Channel Islands ( Jersey and Guernsey) ( UK) 79.0 76.6 81.5
27 Cyprus 79.0 76.5 81.6
28 Ireland 78.9 76.5 81.3
29 Costa Rica 78.8 76.5 81.2
30 Puerto Rico ( US) 78.7 74.7 82.7
31 Luxembourg 78.7 75.7 81.6
32 United Arab Emirates 78.7 77.2 81.5
33 South Korea 78.6 75.0 82.2
34 Chile 78.6 75.5 81.5
35 Denmark 78.3 76.0 80.6
36 Cuba 78.3 76.2 80.4
37 United States 78.2 75.6 80.8
38 Portugal 78.1 75.0 81.2
39 Slovenia 77.9 74.1 81.5
40 Kuwait 77.6 76.0 79.9
42 Barbados 77.3 74.4 79.8
43 Brunei 77.1 75.0 79.7
44 Czech Republic 76.5 73.4 79.5
45 Réunion ( France) 76.4 72.3 80.5
46 Albania 76.4 73.4 79.7
47 Uruguay 76.4 72.8 79.9
48 Mexico 76.2 73.7 78.6
49 Belize 76.1 73.3 79.2
50 New Caledonia ( France) 76.1 72.8 79.7
51 French Guiana ( France) 75.9 72.5 79.9
52 Croatia 75.7 72.3 79.2
53 Oman 75.6 74.2 77.5
54 Bahrain 75.6 74.3 77.5
55 Qatar 75.6 75.2 76.4
56 Poland 75.6 71.3 79.8
57 Panama 75.5 73.0 78.2
58 Guam ( US) 75.5 73.3 77.9
59 Argentina 75.3 71.6 79.1
60 Netherlands Antilles ( Netherlands) 75.1 71.3 78.8
61 Ecuador 75.0 72.1 78.0
62 Bosnia and Herzegovina 74.9 72.2 77.4
63 People's Republic of China (mainland) 74.8[5] 72.4 77.4
64 Slovakia 74.7 70.7 78.5
65 Montenegro 74.5 72.4 76.8
66 Vietnam 74.2 72.3 76.2
67 Malaysia 74.2 72.0 76.7
68 Aruba ( Netherlands) 74.2 71.3 77.1
69 Macedonia 74.2 71.8 76.6
70 Syria 74.1 72.3 76.1
71 French Polynesia ( France) 74.1 71.7 76.8
72 Serbia 74.0 71.7 76.3
73 Libya 74.0 71.7 76.9
74 Tunisia 73.9 71.9 76.0
75 Venezuela 73.7 70.9 76.8
76 Saint Lucia 73.7 71.8 75.6
77 Bahamas 73.5 70.6 76.3
78 Palestinian territories 73.4 71.8 75.0
79 Hungary 73.3 69.2 77.4
80 Tonga 73.3 72.3 74.3
81 Bulgaria 73.0 69.5 76.7
82 Lithuania 73.0 67.5 78.3
83 Nicaragua 72.9 69.9 76.0
84 Colombia 72.9 69.2 76.6
85 Mauritius 72.8 69.5 76.2
86 Saudi Arabia 72.8[6] 70.9 75.3
87 Latvia 72.7 67.3 77.7
88 Jamaica 72.6 70.0 75.2
89 Jordan 72.5 70.8 74.5
90 Romania 72.5 69.0 76.1
91 Sri Lanka 72.4 68.8 76.2
92 Brazil 72.4 68.8 76.1
93 Algeria 72.3 70.9 73.7
94 Dominican Republic 72.2 69.3 75.5
95 Lebanon 72.0 69.9 74.2
96 Armenia 72.0 68.4 75.1
97 El Salvador 71.9 68.8 74.9
98 Turkey 71.8 69.4 74.3
99 Paraguay 71.8 69.7 73.9
100 Philippines 71.7 69.5 73.9
101 Cape Verde 71.7 68.3 74.5
102 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 71.6 69.5 73.8
103 Samoa 71.5 68.5 74.8
104 Peru 71.4 68.9 74.0
105 Estonia 71.4 65.9 76.8
106 Egypt 71.3 69.1 73.6
107 Morocco 71.2 69.0 73.4
108 Georgia 71.0 67.1 74.8
109 Iran 71.0 69.4 72.6
110 Indonesia 70.7 68.7 72.7
111 Thailand 70.6 66.5 75.0
112 Russia 70.3 64.3 76.4
113 Guatemala 70.3 66.7 73.8
114 Suriname 70.2 67.0 73.6
115 Honduras 70.2 66.9 73.7
116 Vanuatu 70.0 68.3 72.1
117 Trinidad and Tobago 69.8 67.8 71.8
118 Belarus 69.0 63.1 75.2
119 Moldova 68.9 65.1 72.5
120 Fiji 68.8 66.6 71.1
121 Grenada 68.7 67.0 70.3
122 Federated States of Micronesia 68.5 67.7 69.3
123 Maldives 68.5 67.6 69.5
124 Ukraine 67.9 62.1 73.8
125 Azerbaijan 67.5 63.8 71.2
126 North Korea 67.3 65.1 69.3
127 Uzbekistan 67.2 64.0 70.4
- World Avg. 67.2 65.0 69.5
128 Kazakhstan 67.0 61.6 72.4
129 Guyana 66.8 64.2 69.9
130 Mongolia 66.8 63.9 69.9
131 Tajikistan 66.7 64.1 69.4
132 Western Sahara 65.9 64.3 68.1
133 Kyrgyzstan 65.9 62.0 69.9
134 Bhutan 65.6 64.0 67.5
135 Bolivia 65.6 63.4 67.7
136 São Tomé and Príncipe 65.5 63.6 67.4
137 Pakistan 65.5 65.2 65.8
138 Comoros 65.2 63.0 67.4
139 India 64.7 63.2 66.4
140 Laos 64.4 63.0 65.8
141 Mauritania 64.2 62.4 66.0
142 Bangladesh 64.1 63.2 65.0
143 Nepal 63.8 63.2 64.2
144 Solomon Islands 63.6 62.7 64.5
145 Turkmenistan 63.2 59.0 67.5
146 Senegal 63.1 61.0 65.1
147 Yemen 62.7 61.1 64.3
148 Myanmar 62.1 59.0 65.3
149 Haiti 60.9 59.1 62.8
150 East Timor (10% below world average) 60.8 60.0 61.7
151 Ghana 60.0 59.6 60.5
152 Cambodia 59.7 57.3 61.9
153 Iraq 59.5 57.8 61.5
154 Gambia 59.4 58.6 60.3
155 Madagascar 59.4 57.7 61.3
156 Sudan 58.6 57.1 60.1
157 Togo 58.4 56.7 60.1
158 Eritrea 58.0 55.6 60.3
159 Papua New Guinea 57.2 54.6 60.4
160 Niger 56.9 57.8 56.0
161 Gabon 56.7 56.4 57.1
162 Benin 56.7 55.6 57.8
163 Guinea 56.0 54.4 57.6
164 Republic of the Congo 55.3 54.0 56.6
165 Djibouti 54.8 53.6 56.0
166 Mali 54.5 52.1 56.6
167 Kenya (20% below world average) 54.1 53.0 55.2
168 Ethiopia 52.9 51.7 54.3
169 Namibia 52.9 52.5 53.1
170 Tanzania 52.5 51.4 53.6
171 Burkina Faso 52.3 50.7 53.8
172 Equatorial Guinea 51.6 50.4 52.8
173 Uganda 51.5 50.8 52.2
174 Botswana 50.7 50.5 50.7
175 Chad 50.6 49.3 52.0
176 Cameroon 50.4 50.0 50.8
177 Burundi 49.6 48.1 51.0
178 South Africa 49.3 48.8 49.7
179 Côte d'Ivoire 48.3 47.5 49.3
180 Malawi 48.3 48.1 48.4
181 Somalia 48.2 46.9 49.4
182 Nigeria (30% below world average) 46.9 46.4 47.3
183 Democratic Republic of the Congo 46.5 45.2 47.7
184 Guinea-Bissau 46.4 44.9 47.9
185 Rwanda 46.2 44.6 47.8
186 Liberia 45.7 44.8 46.6
187 Central African Republic 44.7 43.3 46.1
188 Afghanistan 43.8 43.9 43.8
189 Zimbabwe 43.5 44.1 42.6
190 Lesotho 42.6 42.9 42.3
191 Sierra Leone 42.6 41.0 44.1
192 Zambia 42.4 42.1 42.5
193 Swaziland (40% below world average) 39.6 39.8 39.4
194 Mozambique 39.2 38.3 39

Not bad for a failure. The following 179 countries on the list should be so fortunate to fail as well as the NHS.
 
apple0154 said:
Fail? Check the life expectancy chart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Life expectancy at birth (years)
Rank state/territory Overall Male Female
1 Japan 82.7 79.0 86.1
2 Hong Kong 82.2 79.4 85.1
3 Israel 82.0 80.0 84.0
4 Italy 82.0 79.4 84.5
5 Iceland 81.8 80.2 83.3
6 Australia 81.2 78.9 83.6
7 Singapore 81.0 79.0 83.0
8 Spain 80.9 77.7 84.2
9 Sweden 80.9 78.7 83.0
10 Macau 80.7 78.5 82.8
11 France (metropolitan) 80.7 77.1 84.1
12 Canada 80.7 78.3 82.9
13 New Zealand 80.2 78.2 82.2
14 Norway 80.2 77.8 82.5
15 United Kingdom 80.1 78.1 82.1
16 Austria 79.8 76.9 82.6
17 Netherlands 79.8 77.5 81.9
18 Martinique ( France) 79.5 76.5 82.3
19 Greece 79.5 77.1 81.9
20 Belgium 79.4 76.5 82.3
21 Malta 79.4 77.3 81.3
22 Germany 79.4 76.5 82.1
23 U.S. Virgin Islands ( US) 79.4 75.5 83.3
24 Finland 79.3 76.1 82.4
25 Guadeloupe ( France) 79.2 76.0 82.2
26 Channel Islands ( Jersey and Guernsey) ( UK) 79.0 76.6 81.5
27 Cyprus 79.0 76.5 81.6
28 Ireland 78.9 76.5 81.3
29 Costa Rica 78.8 76.5 81.2
30 Puerto Rico ( US) 78.7 74.7 82.7
31 Luxembourg 78.7 75.7 81.6
32 United Arab Emirates 78.7 77.2 81.5
33 South Korea 78.6 75.0 82.2
34 Chile 78.6 75.5 81.5
35 Denmark 78.3 76.0 80.6
36 Cuba 78.3 76.2 80.4
37 United States 78.2 75.6 80.8
38 Portugal 78.1 75.0 81.2
39 Slovenia 77.9 74.1 81.5
40 Kuwait 77.6 76.0 79.9
42 Barbados 77.3 74.4 79.8
43 Brunei 77.1 75.0 79.7
44 Czech Republic 76.5 73.4 79.5
45 Réunion ( France) 76.4 72.3 80.5
46 Albania 76.4 73.4 79.7
47 Uruguay 76.4 72.8 79.9
48 Mexico 76.2 73.7 78.6
49 Belize 76.1 73.3 79.2
50 New Caledonia ( France) 76.1 72.8 79.7
51 French Guiana ( France) 75.9 72.5 79.9
52 Croatia 75.7 72.3 79.2
53 Oman 75.6 74.2 77.5
54 Bahrain 75.6 74.3 77.5
55 Qatar 75.6 75.2 76.4
56 Poland 75.6 71.3 79.8
57 Panama 75.5 73.0 78.2
58 Guam ( US) 75.5 73.3 77.9
59 Argentina 75.3 71.6 79.1
60 Netherlands Antilles ( Netherlands) 75.1 71.3 78.8
61 Ecuador 75.0 72.1 78.0
62 Bosnia and Herzegovina 74.9 72.2 77.4
63 People's Republic of China (mainland) 74.8[5] 72.4 77.4
64 Slovakia 74.7 70.7 78.5
65 Montenegro 74.5 72.4 76.8
66 Vietnam 74.2 72.3 76.2
67 Malaysia 74.2 72.0 76.7
68 Aruba ( Netherlands) 74.2 71.3 77.1
69 Macedonia 74.2 71.8 76.6
70 Syria 74.1 72.3 76.1
71 French Polynesia ( France) 74.1 71.7 76.8
72 Serbia 74.0 71.7 76.3
73 Libya 74.0 71.7 76.9
74 Tunisia 73.9 71.9 76.0
75 Venezuela 73.7 70.9 76.8
76 Saint Lucia 73.7 71.8 75.6
77 Bahamas 73.5 70.6 76.3
78 Palestinian territories 73.4 71.8 75.0
79 Hungary 73.3 69.2 77.4
80 Tonga 73.3 72.3 74.3
81 Bulgaria 73.0 69.5 76.7
82 Lithuania 73.0 67.5 78.3
83 Nicaragua 72.9 69.9 76.0
84 Colombia 72.9 69.2 76.6
85 Mauritius 72.8 69.5 76.2
86 Saudi Arabia 72.8[6] 70.9 75.3
87 Latvia 72.7 67.3 77.7
88 Jamaica 72.6 70.0 75.2
89 Jordan 72.5 70.8 74.5
90 Romania 72.5 69.0 76.1
91 Sri Lanka 72.4 68.8 76.2
92 Brazil 72.4 68.8 76.1
93 Algeria 72.3 70.9 73.7
94 Dominican Republic 72.2 69.3 75.5
95 Lebanon 72.0 69.9 74.2
96 Armenia 72.0 68.4 75.1
97 El Salvador 71.9 68.8 74.9
98 Turkey 71.8 69.4 74.3
99 Paraguay 71.8 69.7 73.9
100 Philippines 71.7 69.5 73.9
101 Cape Verde 71.7 68.3 74.5
102 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 71.6 69.5 73.8
103 Samoa 71.5 68.5 74.8
104 Peru 71.4 68.9 74.0
105 Estonia 71.4 65.9 76.8
106 Egypt 71.3 69.1 73.6
107 Morocco 71.2 69.0 73.4
108 Georgia 71.0 67.1 74.8
109 Iran 71.0 69.4 72.6
110 Indonesia 70.7 68.7 72.7
111 Thailand 70.6 66.5 75.0
112 Russia 70.3 64.3 76.4
113 Guatemala 70.3 66.7 73.8
114 Suriname 70.2 67.0 73.6
115 Honduras 70.2 66.9 73.7
116 Vanuatu 70.0 68.3 72.1
117 Trinidad and Tobago 69.8 67.8 71.8
118 Belarus 69.0 63.1 75.2
119 Moldova 68.9 65.1 72.5
120 Fiji 68.8 66.6 71.1
121 Grenada 68.7 67.0 70.3
122 Federated States of Micronesia 68.5 67.7 69.3
123 Maldives 68.5 67.6 69.5
124 Ukraine 67.9 62.1 73.8
125 Azerbaijan 67.5 63.8 71.2
126 North Korea 67.3 65.1 69.3
127 Uzbekistan 67.2 64.0 70.4
- World Avg. 67.2 65.0 69.5
128 Kazakhstan 67.0 61.6 72.4
129 Guyana 66.8 64.2 69.9
130 Mongolia 66.8 63.9 69.9
131 Tajikistan 66.7 64.1 69.4
132 Western Sahara 65.9 64.3 68.1
133 Kyrgyzstan 65.9 62.0 69.9
134 Bhutan 65.6 64.0 67.5
135 Bolivia 65.6 63.4 67.7
136 São Tomé and Príncipe 65.5 63.6 67.4
137 Pakistan 65.5 65.2 65.8
138 Comoros 65.2 63.0 67.4
139 India 64.7 63.2 66.4
140 Laos 64.4 63.0 65.8
141 Mauritania 64.2 62.4 66.0
142 Bangladesh 64.1 63.2 65.0
143 Nepal 63.8 63.2 64.2
144 Solomon Islands 63.6 62.7 64.5
145 Turkmenistan 63.2 59.0 67.5
146 Senegal 63.1 61.0 65.1
147 Yemen 62.7 61.1 64.3
148 Myanmar 62.1 59.0 65.3
149 Haiti 60.9 59.1 62.8
150 East Timor (10% below world average) 60.8 60.0 61.7
151 Ghana 60.0 59.6 60.5
152 Cambodia 59.7 57.3 61.9
153 Iraq 59.5 57.8 61.5
154 Gambia 59.4 58.6 60.3
155 Madagascar 59.4 57.7 61.3
156 Sudan 58.6 57.1 60.1
157 Togo 58.4 56.7 60.1
158 Eritrea 58.0 55.6 60.3
159 Papua New Guinea 57.2 54.6 60.4
160 Niger 56.9 57.8 56.0
161 Gabon 56.7 56.4 57.1
162 Benin 56.7 55.6 57.8
163 Guinea 56.0 54.4 57.6
164 Republic of the Congo 55.3 54.0 56.6
165 Djibouti 54.8 53.6 56.0
166 Mali 54.5 52.1 56.6
167 Kenya (20% below world average) 54.1 53.0 55.2
168 Ethiopia 52.9 51.7 54.3
169 Namibia 52.9 52.5 53.1
170 Tanzania 52.5 51.4 53.6
171 Burkina Faso 52.3 50.7 53.8
172 Equatorial Guinea 51.6 50.4 52.8
173 Uganda 51.5 50.8 52.2
174 Botswana 50.7 50.5 50.7
175 Chad 50.6 49.3 52.0
176 Cameroon 50.4 50.0 50.8
177 Burundi 49.6 48.1 51.0
178 South Africa 49.3 48.8 49.7
179 Côte d'Ivoire 48.3 47.5 49.3
180 Malawi 48.3 48.1 48.4
181 Somalia 48.2 46.9 49.4
182 Nigeria (30% below world average) 46.9 46.4 47.3
183 Democratic Republic of the Congo 46.5 45.2 47.7
184 Guinea-Bissau 46.4 44.9 47.9
185 Rwanda 46.2 44.6 47.8
186 Liberia 45.7 44.8 46.6
187 Central African Republic 44.7 43.3 46.1
188 Afghanistan 43.8 43.9 43.8
189 Zimbabwe 43.5 44.1 42.6
190 Lesotho 42.6 42.9 42.3
191 Sierra Leone 42.6 41.0 44.1
192 Zambia 42.4 42.1 42.5
193 Swaziland (40% below world average) 39.6 39.8 39.4
194 Mozambique 39.2 38.3 39

Not bad for a failure. The following 179 countries on the list should be so fortunate to fail as well as the NHS.
Click to expand...

Longevity has fuck all to do with health systems.
Longevity is all about your genes, your lifestyle, your life choices.

If you never get sick you may still die young without ever seeing a dr.

In the UK people can't afford the unhealthy lifestyle many Americans, including the very poorest, enjoy.

Then lets look at work schedules, Americans rarely work a 40 hour week, whilst many workers salaries are for a 40 hour contract, many work 60,70 or 80+ hours a week as a matter of routine.

If a person spends 30 or more mins a day commuting to work this has severe negative effects on health.

Many Americans spend 30, 60 ,90+ mins a day commuting to work.
You look at one element and ignore a hundred more?

Bit dishonest of you don't you think?
 
apple0154 said:
The other side of the coin is some people don't want to be kept alive. A solution would be to insist everyone have a living will or a panel composed of, say, 3 doctors.

One example was my aunt. She never married. Lived alone until she was almost 88. She had a lady come by to make her lunch/dinner and do a few chores for an hour or so every day. She made us (my mother (her sister), my brother and I promise to never put her in a home. We told her something could happen and no one would know until the next day. She didn't care. She never wanted to go to a "home".

One day the lady was over doing a few things and my aunt had a blood vessel rupture in her stomach. She was taken to hospital and operated on. There were complications. A week or so later the doctor told us she would never be going home again to live alone. After the necessary bed rest she wouldn't have the strength to walk again assuming everything else worked out OK. Her destination, assuming she lived, was an old folks home. So, the doctor asked, "What do you want us to do? Do you want to keep her alive or let her go?"

The decision was left up to my brother and I. For me, there was no choice. We made a promise. Not once. Not twice. But any and every time a show might come on TV or a conversation arose concerning the elderly and convalescent/retirement homes and my aunt always saying the same thing. "Don't put me in a home."

She died two days later.

My mother had re-occurring cancer. The instructions were DNR, do not resuscitate.

There's no reason a policy can't be put in place with a living will, to start. Especially in a country with government medical. Almost everyone sees a doctor at some point. Furthermore, with computerized records a doctor and/or receptionist could easily check if a patient has a living will. Give the patient one to fill out and drop off and explain if such a will is not recorded on their file there will come a time when treatment for non life-threatening illnesses will be withheld. If one wants to see a doctor they have to have a living will on file. Free. No charge. But mandatory.
Click to expand...

Again you compare apples to oranges. I don't presuppose I can make life or death decisions for others. If you want a living will, God bless. Given what a collossal prick your, I am sure there will be no shortage of people willing to pull the plug on you.
 
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