Debt As A Weapon

Hello Flash,

Flash said:
I think you misrepresent the system entirely. There is no simplistic good guys v. bad guys with the bad guys being the wealthy. It is not true that most of them did not work for their money or make it honestly or that they inherited it. They may have gotten rich with a portfolio of socially conscious investments. Or, they may have gotten rich from stock of G. M., Ford, or other major industries in the U. S. that provide millions of good paying jobs for working class Americans.

There are no oligarchs or power elite in the U. S. Our system contains pluralistic power centers and corporations do not oppress any more people than government agencies.

This is the liberal version of the right's deep state, liberal media, labor union, election fraud, Capitol insurrection by Antifa and BLM, and George Soros, New World Order power elite oppressing America. Oh, and the new one is the great "Reset."

However they got rich does not mean it oppresses or takes money from the poor. I have a lot of family members who have economic hardships---all from poor decisions they made in their life and are still making. According to sociological studies very few Americans live below the poverty line who 1) graduated from high school; 2) delayed having a family until they finished school; 3) work full-time.
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I am not basing my views on personal anecdotes.

I agree with your first two paragraphs. The third sounds like the conservative understanding of liberals, which isn't very accurate. The reality being that all liberals are not the same. Some are as you describe, but liberal views run a much wider spectrum than that one description.

Debt is a weapon when lenders take advantage of the debtors. Allowing a debtor to enter into an agreement which will be to his detriment should be prevented. Democrats set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, but Republicans tried to tear it down. It was essentially rendered inoperative during the Trump years. With Democrats back in control, it has resumed protecting consumers from debt being used as a weapon.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,



And this is all part of a vain attempt to falsely establish that if Republicans were in control of California, that you believe property prices there would be lower. Correct? Is that your position?
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SMH. You view the world very differently than I do. I'm talking about fundamental market principles vis a vis housing. These principles don't change based on what state you are in or who is in power.

What you are saying is all these beliefs you claim to hold are really secondary to Democrats holding power. Political power is all that matters.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,



No, have not read that one. Home ownership IS the number one way that most Americans build wealth. I did not believe that was in dispute. Agreed also that being over-leveraged or 'house broke' is a bad idea. This too frequently ends in failure to fulfill the mortgage, resulting in bankruptcy. It leaves too little room for unexpected expenses.
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Woah!!! Not in dispute? Are you serious? Dude...
 
evince said:
This is fucking insane babble that contradicts its self


Twisted logic for twisted slow minds
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your solutions are insane babble

its called cognitive dissonance - and you got it in spades

we have a small fraction of the world population, consume the most, and you meats ticks are trying to consume more
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Flash,

I am not basing my views on personal anecdotes.

I agree with your first two paragraphs. The third sounds like the conservative understanding of liberals, which isn't very accurate. The reality being that all liberals are not the same. Some are as you describe, but liberal views run a much wider spectrum than that one description.

Debt is a weapon when lenders take advantage of the debtors. Allowing a debtor to enter into an agreement which will be to his detriment should be prevented. Democrats set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, but Republicans tried to tear it down. It was essentially rendered inoperative during the Trump years. With Democrats back in control, it has resumed protecting consumers from debt being used as a weapon.
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The third paragraph compares the conservative view of political/economic power in the U. S. by the liberal view you expressed. They are both simplistic black-white interpretations.
 
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Lionfish said:
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Except most people don't care. Some may give lip service to caring but for many that's all it is. Look at the Bush and Trump years when Republicans had control. We had no problems spending then and not many on the right cared. Trump laughed off the idea of reforming entitlements.

For the most part voters don't hold politicians accountable for overspending because it doesn't bother us. So therefore politicians continue to spend.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
SMH. You view the world very differently than I do. I'm talking about fundamental market principles vis a vis housing. These principles don't change based on what state you are in or who is in power.

What you are saying is all these beliefs you claim to hold are really secondary to Democrats holding power. Political power is all that matters.
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Not quite, no, not at all.

Political power is the means, not the goal.

It is not possible to institute a platform without political power.

The goal is improving society by instituting the desired policy, which requires political power in order to do.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
Woah!!! Not in dispute? Are you serious? Dude...
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I even thanked the post.

Whoopsie. There goes your whole partisan charge. Oh well. It was a bit lame anyway.

Not to fear. I'm certain we can still find things to dispute.
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
The third paragraph compares the conservative view of political/economic power in the U. S. by the liberal view you expressed. They are both simplistic black-white interpretations.
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Interesting.

I disagree. But it is interesting how you see it.

The peculiar part is that I did agree with the first two paragraphs, just not the third. If your contention is that the third is built upon the fist two, then that is where it goes awry.
 
Hello Nordberg,

Nordberg said:
I never thought homeownership as a way to build wealth was in dispute. https://blog.firstam.com/economics/homeownership-remains-strongly-linked-to-wealth-building
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Me neither. But you know the right have their own 'alternative facts,' which do not agree with the facts we in the rest of the world understand.

The problem is the right has quit believing the news. They call the actual news fake, and have substituted fake news instead, which they believe is real. That's how they got into disbelieving the election results.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
It's A way to build. One can argue it's a (very) good one but nonetheless it's A way to build wealth. His claim was it's the #1 way to build wealth without dispute and that is very false.
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So if home ownership is not the #1 way Americans build wealth, then what is it? Savings? Have you got anything to back that up.?
 
cawacko said:
Except most people don't care. Some may give lip service to caring but for many that's all it is. Look at the Bush and Trump years when Republicans had control. We had no problems spending then and not many on the right cared. Trump laughed off the idea of reforming entitlements.

For the most part voters don't hold politicians accountable for overspending because it doesn't bother us. So therefore politicians continue to spend.
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Agreed. Trump blew the budget up hugely and the Republicans applauded. Now, under Biden, they have a problem with it.
 
PoliTalker said:
cawacko said:
It's A way to build. One can argue it's a (very) good one but nonetheless it's A way to build wealth. His claim was it's the #1 way to build wealth without dispute and that is very false.
Click to expand...
So if home ownership is not the #1 way Americans build wealth, then what is it? Savings? Have you got anything to back that up.?
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Agreed owning a home is a way to build wealth: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/16/heres-how-black-americans-can-begin-building-wealth-right-now.html

“Housing is a proven creation of a nest egg of wealth,”

The link mentions a few others.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Nordberg,



Me neither. But you know the right have their own 'alternative facts,' which do not agree with the facts we in the rest of the world understand.

The problem is the right has quit believing the news. They call the actual news fake, and have substituted fake news instead, which they believe is real. That's how they got into disbelieving the election results.
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WTF?! This has nothing to do with right or left wing.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,



So if home ownership is not the #1 way Americans build wealth, then what is it? Savings? Have you got anything to back that up.?
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Start a business. Own stock. Own investment property (real estate).

This isn’t new. There’s a reason books like Rich Dad/Poor Dad so well, it’s about understanding how to make money work for you, not the other way around.

I’m a real estate guy. I own several properties so I am pro real estate. But owning your home costs money. Unless you renters it’s not producing you income. Yes it can appreciate but that’s not guaranteed.

Edit: The debate over how home ownership and how it should be viewed vis a vis as an investment has long gone on. You’re saying it alternative facts and right wing fake news. That’s just b.s.
 
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