Democrats Falsely Claim Jesus was a Socialist

Damocles said:
Herbert Hoover was never claimed to be God by anybody at all, while Jesus is part of a "trinity" and is God according to those who believe. He absolutely could have specifically taught about government rather than personal responsibility, but did not.

There is no verse in the bible that says that, "If you don't have enough to give it is your prerogative to take from your neighbor and give in your name. Do this for me because I told you to feed the poor."

He said, if you believe you will do this. He didn't say, if you believe you will force others to do this.
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Okay...be stone-headed about it if you choose.

You are correct, Jesus did not teach that Karl Marx would be on to something.

But his teachings DO comport with a progressive agenda in large measure...and are damn near antithetical to an American conservative agenda.

That is my point.

I'd still like to discuss some of his teachings that tend to favor significant American conservative issues.

Lets discuss for instance what Jesus had to say about abortion.

Considering what Jesus had to say about abortion...I cannot conceive of how any American conservative Christian can suggest significant opposition to it.

Right?
 
Stretch said:
Like you would actually LOVE to have a government run by Judeo-Christian orders. You can't stand having the Ten Commandments publicly displayed so don't try selling us on the idea that you want allllllllll of Jesus Christ's teachings made mandatory for government rule. :palm:
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What the hell are you talking about?

Where have I suggested...even intimated anything like that?

I am discussing whether the teachings of Jesus are closer to a progressive agenda...or to an American conservative agenda.

Let's stick with that for now.
 
Socialism, as a form of government is force applied to make me follow what you think is right without regard to what I believe may be right. You can, in a free society follow socialist principles without interference from me, however in a socialist society I cannot follow what I believe. Communes exist, if you think it is best you should participate.

I believe that we should feed the poor, it is why I give of both my time and money. I don't believe that because of Jesus, but let's pretend that I do. In this society I can follow the religion and teach others that they should too without interference. However, if I take that belief and codify it and force you to give of both time and treasure because Jesus told me to, I have become a thug. The purpose of government is not to Glorify your version of Sky Daddy, nor should it be.

In a free society, those who think that government is bad can gather and live in militias, etc. those who think communism is the way can do so as well. I encourage people to take part in their beliefs freely. All of the people. I do not tell you that you should not be socialist, nor do I try to tell you that the Sky Daddy is real and that we should codify my beliefs because of it.
 
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blackascoal said:
Don't get this twisted brother. You are absolutely free to conceptualize Jesus, religion, and socialism in any way you chose to frame it. Makes no difference to me. But the truth of this could not be more clear.

First, quite obviously you have absolutely no idea what socialism is. Without question it does not promote "absolution and avoidance of responsibility by making others do what you should do." That's a cartoon version that you needed for your false argument.

Here's what you missed ..
For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”

Neither Jesus nor socialism demand avoidance of responsibility. Socialism is the acceptance of responsibility as are the words in front of you.

Here's a reading assignment .. :0) there will be a test.

Any of this sound familiar?

Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands… The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.

Every single word is as true today as when it was written in 1949.

Why Socialism?
By Albert Einstein
https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/

I would love to have this conversation with you, but if all you have are cartoon characterizations, what would be the point?
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These were instructions for the church. When a church of brothers and sisters in Christ are experiencing hardship or a catastrophe (fire, flood), etc. of some kind, we in the family of God at other churches are to reach out with goods, services, money, food, help, etc. As that Scripture says, when we make sure that THEY are back up on THEIR feet and have abundance again, then THEY will be able to turn around and ALSO be able help meet needs of those churches who gave whenever THEY might be in a position of need. We in Jesus Christ's church are to look out for one another so as not to be a burden on the government or others. God thinks of everything, LOL! ;)
 
Hello Stretch,

Stretch said:
You're confusing God and politics.
God's messages (thousands) were to the hearts of the individual. So, if we ALL adhered to his teachings things would be perfect, right?
But, we live in an imperfect world.
The lesson is not to be outraged or overly concerned with what everybody else is or is not doing.
Each individual is (in the end) only responsible for him/her self and decisions made on giving and helping done quietly and in secret before God. :)
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No, you're assuming I believe such an entity exists, which I do not. Such a concept makes no sense to me. I understand that others wish to believe; and that is their right. I can respect that. I simply ask that my freedom to believe differently is equally respected. If I talk about doing something the Christian way, I am not personally bound to that. That fact that I really do love all of humanity and Fake Christians don't doesn't matter, no matter how hypocritical it makes them look. I am merely holding people accountable to their own expressed religion, and doing what makes the most sense logically.

The fact that I, as an atheist, can love my fellow humans, and all of humanity, is logical to me. It has nothing to do with Christianity. It is in accordance with my faith. I may not believe in God, but I do have very strong faith in humanity to overcome all obstacles and to advance. Humanity has always done that and I have faith humanity will continue to do that for as long as possible. It is up to we, the people who understand these concepts, to make that happen despite they, the people who don't get it. (Sad to say, most Christians actually fall into that category.)

In accordance with my own personal faith, nations should immediately sign a pact to control population levels to mutually agreed upon levels. It is logical for humans on this planet to decide how many humans the planet can comfortably support, and set out to achieve that number. Religions stand in the way of this, so all I can do in the meantime is spread the sense of logical thinking. It is logical that we act according to science, because science will keep us better informed of our situation, and better able to deal with the challenges we may face as a worldwide population on a planet, the only one we know of. The instructions to 'Go forth and multiply' have been complied with. And complied with. And complied with. Thousands of years of complying later, there are simply too many humans on this planet.

Everything gets better for us if there are fewer of us.

You know, they say conservation will help make things last longer, go further. And that is true. But for what? If we are going to keep increasing the number of humans, it negates all of our savings from conservation. THEN what do we do? Conserve more? Conservation is not the answer. It is a bandaid. Time buyer. Birth control is the answer.

I don't care if Jesus was a socialist or a hopeless philanthropist. Jesus is ancient history. This is now. We have too many humans on Earth. We need to reduce our numbers. That doesn't mean anybody has to die. That will happen sooner or later. Always does. All we have to do is stop having so many babies. How we do that, I don't as much care. By law, by order, by incentive plan, cut UBI in half for every child, doesn't matter. It has to be done. People don't want to hear about it it, don't want to talk about it, they are afraid. I am just looking at it from a scientific point of view. It makes no sense for us to keep having so many babies.

Ask 1000 people the same question. I guarantee you, not one of them will answer: 'More humans!'

The question?

'What does the world really need?'

My answer is universal birth control.

But don't let me make too much sense or anything.

I know there are several pesky religions which have no plan for what to do in this situation because they were literally created when people thought the world was flat and nearly endless. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but sooner or later we need to have this conversation. How can we justify very old instructions which make no sense, which violate current logic? The instructions tell us to: Try to fit an infinite number of humans into a finite space with finite amounts of resources. That is impossible to fulfill. It needs to be modified. We now know that we have plenty of humans, and it is time to stop creating more, perhaps even reduce overall populations over time. To continue what we are doing is illogical. It is against my faith.
 
Stretch said:
Like you would actually LOVE to have a government run by Judeo-Christian orders. You can't stand having the Ten Commandments publicly displayed so don't try selling us on the idea that you want allllllllll of Jesus Christ's teachings made mandatory for government rule. :palm:
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Jesus was one of the worlds great philosophers


he was a better man than the religions which were created after his death and claimed him as their god
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Stretch,



No, you're assuming I believe such an entity exists, which I do not. Such a concept makes no sense to me. I understand that others wish to believe; and that is their right. I can respect that. I simply ask that my freedom to believe differently is equally respected. If I talk about doing something the Christian way, I am not personally bound to that. That fact that I really do love all of humanity and Fake Christians don't doesn't matter, no matter how hypocritical it makes them look. I am merely holding people accountable to their own expressed religion, and doing what makes the most sense logically.

The fact that I, as an atheist, can love my fellow humans, and all of humanity, is logical to me. It has nothing to do with Christianity. It is in accordance with my faith. I may not believe in God, but I do have very strong faith in humanity to overcome all obstacles and to advance. Humanity has always done that and I have faith humanity will continue to do that for as long as possible. It is up to we, the people who understand these concepts, to make that happen despite they, the people who don't get it. (Sad to say, most Christians actually fall into that category.)

In accordance with my own personal faith, nations should immediately sign a pact to control population levels to mutually agreed upon levels. It is logical for humans on this planet to decide how many humans the planet can comfortably support, and set out to achieve that number. Religions stand in the way of this, so all I can do in the meantime is spread the sense of logical thinking. It is logical that we act according to science, because science will keep us better informed of our situation, and better able to deal with the challenges we may face as a worldwide population on a planet, the only one we know of. The instructions to 'Go forth and multiply' have been complied with. And complied with. And complied with. Thousands of years of complying later, there are simply too many humans on this planet.

Everything gets better for us if there are fewer of us.

You know, they say conservation will help make things last longer, go further. And that is true. But for what? If we are going to keep increasing the number of humans, it negates all of our savings from conservation. THEN what do we do? Conserve more? Conservation is not the answer. It is a bandaid. Time buyer. Birth control is the answer.

I don't care if Jesus was a socialist or a hopeless philanthropist. Jesus is ancient history. This is now. We have too many humans on Earth. We need to reduce our numbers. That doesn't mean anybody has to die. That will happen sooner or later. Always does. All we have to do is stop having so many babies. How we do that, I don't as much care. By law, by order, by incentive plan, cut UBI in half for every child, doesn't matter. It has to be done. People don't want to hear about it it, don't want to talk about it, they are afraid. I am just looking at it from a scientific point of view. It makes no sense for us to keep having so many babies.

Ask 1000 people the same question. I guarantee you, not one of them will answer: 'More humans!'

The question?

'What does the world really need?'

My answer is universal birth control.

But don't let me make too much sense or anything.

I know there are several pesky religions which have no plan for what to do in this situation because they were literally created when people thought the world was flat and nearly endless. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but sooner or later we need to have this conversation. How can we justify very old instructions which make no sense, which violate current logic? The instructions tell us to: Try to fit an infinite number of humans into a finite space with finite amounts of resources. That is impossible to fulfill. It needs to be modified. We now know that we have plenty of humans, and it is time to stop creating more, perhaps even reduce overall populations over time. To continue what we are doing is illogical. It is against my faith.
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So do your thing. Who's stopping you? You don't need to be talking about faith matters anyway. You don't believe. Good grief. Go. Do your thing. :palm:
 
Hello Stretch,

Stretch said:
So do your thing. Who's stopping you? You don't need to be talking about faith matters anyway. You don't believe. Good grief. Go. Do your thing. :palm:
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Thanks, but I do not require your permission. My faith is strong. I am comfortable talking about it. There is no reason for me not to be talking about faith. Faith can mean more than pertaining to religion. Most people talk about faith like it always means belief in God, but the religious do not own the word. No other word describes my love for humanity like faith does. The religious association is actually the second definition of the word. The primary definition is a strong belief in someone or something. That is exactly what I have. Faith. I can't prove what I believe, so I have to take it on faith, and faith is what I have. It makes sense to believe that humanity will be OK. I understand it could end. I want to avoid that. I think most humans do. That's why I have faith we will avoid destroying ourselves. I believe we will figure it out, we will endure. I have to. To believe otherwise would be defeatist.

We can do this. I believe we can. I want to do what I can to make it happen. We will survive, endure and advance the human race. That's my faith. Put out positive energy and it comes back to you. Be positive, spread positive ideas, share visions for improving the human condition, other will do the same. Together we make this happen. We are part of the collective. We advance ourselves by working together, not by fighting. It is only logical. It is really very simple logic.
 
evince said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#Overpopulation


its real silly

we are entitled to discuss anything about religion


It effects our lives
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Talk about religion all you want. There are a few at JPP who know the Scriptures, studied them, understand them in full context and yet choose this is not the way for them. No problem.
The problem is those who have never read, studied, dissected Scripture contextually and start spouting off what Jesus WOULD say. They have no knowledge of what Jesus already DID say, but now they want to tell Christians what He WOULD say.
That's like if I jumped into a thread about Buddhism of which I have no grand knowledge. And, I began lecturing all these Buddhists on how to be a better Buddhist or quote any of their writings out of context. No way would I do that. All I could reasonably do is ask questions in order to learn.
 
Stretch said:
These were instructions for the church. When a church of brothers and sisters in Christ are experiencing hardship or a catastrophe (fire, flood), etc. of some kind, we in the family of God at other churches are to reach out with goods, services, money, food, help, etc. As that Scripture says, when we make sure that THEY are back up on THEIR feet and have abundance again, then THEY will be able to turn around and ALSO be able help meet needs of those churches who gave whenever THEY might be in a position of need. We in Jesus Christ's church are to look out for one another so as not to be a burden on the government or others. God thinks of everything, LOL! ;)
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With all due respect good sister, that's a misreading of his words and actions, imo.

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you"

42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

His words were not just about helping your friends.
 
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