denying felons the right to vote is unconstitutional

NiftyNiblick said:
I don't know about what's constitutional, because I obviously don't give a fat flying fuck about our amateurishly written constitution,

but felons who've done their time shouldn't have any restrictions--voting, forearms ownership, offender registries, anything at all.

People need to be rehabilitated, and if that isn't possible, then they need to be humanely euthanized, not for punishment but for social expediency.

Everything else is bullshit.

Why is this country so fucking stupid?
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I can see in some cases, felons who have finished their time not having certain rights restored. For example, a felon who has a record of repeated use of firearms for crimes probably should be denied the right to possess a firearm.

Most people who commit serious crimes are not going to be rehabilitated, and that goes double for repeat offenders. As for offing them, I agree that those who have a repeat history of violence or have shown they cannot or will not be rehabilitated, should be killed. They represent nothing but a threat to other inmates and the staff of the prison.
 
Into the Night said:
No. They are prisoners. They are not citizens until they have completed their sentence.
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They don't lose their status as citizens. Instead, they have certain rights removed. On the other hand, they continue to have some rights in whole or part, such as the right to practice a religion. Freedom of speech is still their right with some exceptions where such speech could be considered detrimental to them or others in prison.

Convicts on parole or community custody have most of their rights restored so they can function in society, but remain in a quasi-status of being incarcerated as they are still doing their sentence.
 
Nordberg said:
That is as usual, flat-out wrong. Citizenship is the most secure status you can get, It requires an act of treason, renouncing the country, joining an enemy army in combat, and ,like Trump, starting an insurrection. They do NOT lose citizenship status. Some states presume the power to take away some of their rights. Citizenship is not one of them.
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It IS one of them. While they are prisoners, they are not citizens.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I don't know about what's constitutional, because I obviously don't give a fat flying fuck about our amateurishly written constitution
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the whole of the citizenry had their say on the constitution when it was ratified...........it took years of debate and changes before it was ratified. Given that info, how do you justify your remarks about amateurishly written??????
 
SmarterthanYou said:
and i'm not talking about the period DURING incarceration.
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In an ideal world, there would be no catch and release program for felons.
In that world, felons that have completed their sentence would and should be citizens with voting rights restored.

As it is, they must apply to the court to have those rights restored.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
the whole of the citizenry had their say on the constitution when it was ratified...........it took years of debate and changes before it was ratified. Given that info, how do you justify your remarks about amateurishly written??????
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Simple. He utterly discards it. He's just trying to use wording to justify discarding it.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
in this particular instance, Nordberg is completely correct. Incarceration does not remove citizenship.
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Yes it does.
You cannot vote.
You cannot say what you want.
You cannot travel where you want.
You cannot legally carry a gun.
...and many other restrictions.
You have acted against the State, and are therefore no longer a citizen thereof or of the United States.

Only when your sentence is completed are you a citizen again.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
AMENDMENT XIII - Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.

Note: A portion of Article IV, section 2, of the Constitution was superseded by the 13th amendment.

Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

AMENDMENT XV - Passed by Congress February 26, 1869. Ratified February 3, 1870.

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude--
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Um.

13th Amendment, brah....

This is because the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects against slavery and involuntary servitude, explicitly excludes from its reach those held in confinement due to a criminal conviction.

The constitution allows for the rights of the convicted to be abridged.
 
Into the Night said:
In an ideal world, there would be no catch and release program for felons.
In that world, felons that have completed their sentence would and should be citizens with voting rights restored.

As it is, they must apply to the court to have those rights restored.
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They should not have to apply.
 
AProudLefty said:
They should not have to apply.[/QUOTE

It varies by state. Some do not have to apply but are automatically eligible when they have completed their term.


  • In the District of Columbia, Maine and Vermont, felons never lose their right to vote, even while they are incarcerated.
  • In 21 states, felons lose their voting rights only while incarcerated, and receive automatic restoration upon release. Note that in Maryland, convictions for buying or selling votes can only be restored through pardon.
  • In 16 states, felons lose their voting rights during incarceration, and for a period of time after, typically while on parole and/or probation. Voting rights are automatically restored after this time period. Former felons may also have to pay any outstanding fines, fees or restitution before their rights are restored.
  • In 11 states, felons lose their voting rights indefinitely for some crimes, or require a governor’s pardon for voting rights to be restored, face an additional waiting period after completion of sentence (including parole and probation) or require additional action before voting rights can be restored.
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SmarterthanYou said:
AMENDMENT XIII - Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.

Note: A portion of Article IV, section 2, of the Constitution was superseded by the 13th amendment.

Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

AMENDMENT XV - Passed by Congress February 26, 1869. Ratified February 3, 1870.

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude--
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Do your time and get your vote back


Except for crimes against our nation
 
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