denying felons the right to vote is unconstitutional

[evince]

If you fear the prison vote


You have too many people in prison

 

[Into the Night]

Being a convicted felon does not necessarily serve jail/prison time. Some can get straight probation.

Yes. I am aware of the catch and release program for felons.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Yes it does.
You cannot vote.
You cannot say what you want.
You cannot travel where you want.
You cannot legally carry a gun.
...and many other restrictions.
You have acted against the State, and are therefore no longer a citizen thereof or of the United States.

Only when your sentence is completed are you a citizen again.

wrong. you are still a citizen, you've just had your rights suspended via the 5th Amendment.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Um.

13th Amendment, brah....

This is because the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects against slavery and involuntary servitude, explicitly excludes from its reach those held in confinement due to a criminal conviction.

The constitution allows for the rights of the convicted to be abridged.

where does it specifically say those things?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Um.

13th Amendment, brah....

This is because the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects against slavery and involuntary servitude, explicitly excludes from its reach those held in confinement due to a criminal conviction.

The constitution allows for the rights of the convicted to be abridged.

where does it specifically say those things?

What copy of the US Constitution do you use?

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/#amendment-13-section-1
Section 1
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

There have been several SCOTUS rulings on the 13th Amendment: https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/resource/13th-amendment/

 

[SmarterthanYou]

What copy of the US Constitution do you use?

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/#amendment-13-section-1
Section 1
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

There have been several SCOTUS rulings on the 13th Amendment: https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/resource/13th-amendment/

and none of that dispels or debunks what I said about felons having the right to vote AFTER they served their sentence in full

 

[Dutch Uncle]

and none of that dispels or debunks what I said about felons having the right to vote AFTER they served their sentence in full

Scroll up, DtM, I agree that all rights should be returned upon completion of sentence.

 

[Into the Night]

wrong. you are still a citizen, you've just had your rights suspended via the 5th Amendment.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The 5th amendment does not suspend any rights nor discuss citizenship.

 

[Into the Night]

where does it specifically say those things?

Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The 13th amendment clearly states that it does not apply to people convicted of a crime (a felon).

 

[Into the Night]

and none of that dispels or debunks what I said about felons having the right to vote AFTER they served their sentence in full

That is correct.

 

[Nordberg]

In fact, some states do not return voting rights. You can go to court and get them back, but what felon has the means for that? There are states that will not consider returning voting rights until probation and all court costs and fines are paid in full. Probation can linger for years and has constant fees.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

In fact, some states do not return voting rights. You can go to court and get them back, but what felon has the means for that? There are states that will not consider returning voting rights until probation and all court costs and fines are paid in full. Probation can linger for years and has constant fees.

That seems reasonable except for permanent forfeiture. Probation is a form of custody where you are released into the community but are still monitored and is a part of your sentence, so you haven't completed your time until it is finished.

 

[Nordberg]

and none of that dispels or debunks what I said about felons having the right to vote AFTER they served their sentence in full

Only in some states.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The 5th amendment does not suspend any rights nor discuss citizenship.

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

 

[Into the Night]

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This amendment does not suspend any rights. If you are going to quote an amendment, quote the whole thing.

 

[Into the Night]

In fact, some states do not return voting rights.

All States return voting rights.

You can go to court and get them back, but what felon has the means for that?

You can't afford $35 to file for a court hearing?

There are states that will not consider returning voting rights until probation and all court costs and fines are paid in full. Probation can linger for years and has constant fees.

Probation means the sentence isn't completed yet. Not paying the court means the sentence isn't completed yet.

 

[Into the Night]

Only in some states.

ALL States return voting rights.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

This amendment does not suspend any rights. If you are going to quote an amendment, quote the whole thing.

I have to admit, i'm taken back by your newfound inability to comprehend..........

 

[Into the Night]

I have to admit, i'm taken back by your newfound inability to comprehend..........

Oh, I comprehend your opinion just fine. It is not, however, in the 5th amendment.

 

[Nordberg]

That seems reasonable except for permanent forfeiture. Probation is a form of custody where you are released into the community but are still monitored and is a part of your sentence, so you haven't completed your time until it is finished.

They have permanent vote disqualification. You can get it back by going to court. You have to suck up to a judge. You know who can afford that? So poor and minorities are disenfranchised. Three states have permanent voting bans. Some insist on all court costs, fees, and fines being paid in full first. Of course, they just tack on new costs and keep a citizen from voting.