Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education'

In Detroit, the union is the largest problem (other than the actual struture of public education). This isn't o say I'm anti union, or even against teachers unions, only that the situation in Detroit is an example of how unions do not represent your (the consumers) interest, they serve their (the unions) interest.
 
I am not likely to be a participant in any organized protest. Back in the 90's there was an organized protest at OKC by teachers across the state who were wanting a law passed (and eventually it was) that gave teachers raises, reduced class size and what not. I wasn't there as it just isn't my thing to be involved in such. I'm more of a letter writer and a one on one participant in the process. That being said, if what I read in the article is true then good for these kids. I truly hope that their motives were sincere and they weren't just wanting to be rebellious to be rebellious. Imagine, a teacher gone for 86 (or whatever it was) out of the 175 school days....and then expecting that the kids have been taught to their fullest potential. No way that's gonna happen.

I also read cawacko's article. The superintendent seems desperate to try something that will work. I would be all for that plan. I mean, if I can't do the job then bring someone in who can. Which leads me again to testing/accountability. I am all for holding teachers accountable for test scores as long as there is some accountability on the part of the student as well. I am very tempted this testing season (which is getting ready to be in full swing next week for us) to video the students while they are testing, interview the ones afterward who obviously do not try and make a presentation to take to our legislators. Take it to our legislators, because they are the ones who are going to tie the student's performance on tests to our (teacher's) evaluations and possibility of future employment. I don't mind it for me as there aready is some accountability on the student's part (soon to be taken away I hear) so my students put forth good effort on these state tests, but for the upper-elementary and junior high teacher to be held accountable for the student's performance when the test the student is taking means diddly-squat to them....that won't work.

People who are not in education need to be informed by those who are. Informed, not preached to nor talked down to, but informed. I contend that most people, even state legislators, when informed of what is really happening, will make the best decision possible. Naive? Maybe but that is the way I feel.

As to teaching, I have always said to tell me what you want 'em to know and by when you want 'em to know it and I, like Number One, will "make it so."
 
Superfreak said:
Oh well in that case, obviously we should go by your memory. do you have anything that suggests the first site is not comparing apples to apples?
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I didn't say that it wasn't comparing apples to apples. I took the point under discussion to be about public spending on education. The link that you posted likely includes public and private expenditures. I don't really care enough about it to actually research it but wanted to point that out. If you're interested in comparative education spending, here's a shitload of data from the OECD:

http://www.oecd.org/document/2/0,3746,en_2649_39263238_48634114_1_1_1_1,00.html#Data
 
leaningright said:
I am not likely to be a participant in any organized protest. Back in the 90's there was an organized protest at OKC by teachers across the state who were wanting a law passed (and eventually it was) that gave teachers raises, reduced class size and what not. I wasn't there as it just isn't my thing to be involved in such. I'm more of a letter writer and a one on one participant in the process. That being said, if what I read in the article is true then good for these kids. I truly hope that their motives were sincere and they weren't just wanting to be rebellious to be rebellious. Imagine, a teacher gone for 86 (or whatever it was) out of the 175 school days....and then expecting that the kids have been taught to their fullest potential. No way that's gonna happen.

I also read cawacko's article. The superintendent seems desperate to try something that will work. I would be all for that plan. I mean, if I can't do the job then bring someone in who can. Which leads me again to testing/accountability. I am all for holding teachers accountable for test scores as long as there is some accountability on the part of the student as well. I am very tempted this testing season (which is getting ready to be in full swing next week for us) to video the students while they are testing, interview the ones afterward who obviously do not try and make a presentation to take to our legislators. Take it to our legislators, because they are the ones who are going to tie the student's performance on tests to our (teacher's) evaluations and possibility of future employment. I don't mind it for me as there aready is some accountability on the student's part (soon to be taken away I hear) so my students put forth good effort on these state tests but f,or the upper-elementary and junior high teacher to be held accountable for the student's performance when the test the student is taking means diddly-squat to them....that won't work.

People who are not in education need to be informed by those who are. Informed, not preached to nor talked down to, but informed. I contend that most people, even state legislators, when informed of what is really happening, will make the best decision possible. Naive? Maybe but that is the way I feel.

As to teaching, I have always said to tell me what you want 'em to know and by when you want 'em to know it and I, like Number One, will "make it so."
Click to expand...

The bolded above is a very good point. One I had not personally taken into account.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
I didn't say that it wasn't comparing apples to apples. I took the point under discussion to be about public spending on education. The link that you posted likely includes public and private expenditures. I don't really care enough about it to actually research it but wanted to point that out. If you're interested in comparative education spending, here's a shitload of data from the OECD:

http://www.oecd.org/document/2/0,3746,en_2649_39263238_48634114_1_1_1_1,00.html#Data
Click to expand...

The link 'likely' compares them because you say so. Um... ok.
 
Superfreak said:
The link 'likely' compares them because you say so. Um... ok.
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No. Likely because I say so and I say so because I am familiar with the data that it cites as a source (OECD, though quite dated data) and with where the US ranks on a comparative basis for public spending on education.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
No. Likely because I say so and I say so because I am familiar with the data that it cites as a source (OECD, though quite dated data) and with where the US ranks on a comparative basis for public spending on education.
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ok... because you say so because you remembered something that might be related to this topic but you really aren't sure... understood.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... um, ok... so again... please link us up to something other than your memory of what you think it might be. and no... linking to the OECD and saying go look is not acceptable.
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No thanks. I'm comfortable where I am. Anyone who wants to look up comparative stats on education spending knows where to find it. Here it is again for those that are interested:

http://www.oecd.org/document/2/0,3746,en_2649_39263238_48634114_1_1_1_1,00.html#Data


If anyone wants comparative total spending on primary education for 1998 they can go to your link.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
No thanks. I'm comfortable where I am. Anyone who wants to look up comparative stats on education spending knows where to find it. Here it is again for those that are interested:

http://www.oecd.org/document/2/0,3746,en_2649_39263238_48634114_1_1_1_1,00.html#Data


If anyone wants comparative total spending on primary education for 1998 they can go to your link.
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LOL... hilarious... of course you are comfortable with where you are at. you are relying on your own memory.

Here is another link showing similar information... the US spends more on education yet doesn't have the results.

http://mat.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/
 
Superfreak said:
LOL... hilarious... of course you are comfortable with where you are at. you are relying on your own memory.

Here is another link showing similar information... the US spends more on education yet doesn't have the results.

http://mat.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/
Click to expand...


Like I said, if anyone wants the data it's available at the link I provided. If anyone wants a small piece of the available data that supports their worldview and confirms their biases, then they can go to your links.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Like I said, if anyone wants the data it's available at the link I provided. If anyone wants a small piece of the available data that supports their worldview and confirms their biases, then they can go to your links.
Click to expand...

LMAO... the original link I posted was from OECD data... albeit dated as I didn't catch it. Your link shows the very same thing... though more current. The US spends more per student, yet we get average to below average results.
 
Johnny Rocketfingers said:
In Detroit, the union is the largest problem (other than the actual struture of public education). This isn't o say I'm anti union, or even against teachers unions, only that the situation in Detroit is an example of how unions do not represent your (the consumers) interest, they serve their (the unions) interest.
Click to expand...

Two stories:
1 - During an interview of a striking Union member; a question was asked why they were asking for so much of an increase and the member said something along the lines that they had to make up for the money they lost, everytime they went on strike.
2 - Copper mining went into the toilet, many years ago, and one of the mining companies in AZ, let all of the employees stay in the company owned housing, worked it out with the banks so that vehicles weren't repossessed, no electricy was shut off, and food was on the table. This was for a year or more.
No sooner does the economy pick back up and the mine was able to reopen, then the Union goes on strike.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Like I said, if anyone wants the data it's available at the link I provided. If anyone wants a small piece of the available data that supports their worldview and confirms their biases, then they can go to your links.
Click to expand...

perhaps I missed something but I thought you were arguing the US spent about the average for OECD nations.......the link you provided says they pay nearly twice the average......
 
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