Did the universe have an absolute beginning, or is it eternal?

gfm7175 said:
From a Christian standpoint, it makes sense for me to believe that the universe is eternal, otherwise there would be nowhere for the Christian God (who is himself eternal) to exist.
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The BGV theorem only applies to spacetime. It doesn't apply to any conjectured eternal transcendent realm outside the boundaries of spacetime.
 
E
T. A. Gardner said:
Don't you think it should? I do. If the Big Bang happened, it has to have had a location from which it originated. Wouldn't it be worthwhile if we knew where the spot was?
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There is no central location of origin.

That is a mental illusion because our minds evolved to only think in three dimensions. We live in a four dimensional spacetime universe.

The big bang can't be thought of as matter exploding outward from a point. It was space itself that expanded and stretched, everywhere and all at once. Everywhere you stand in the universe looks like the center, because distant galaxies outside your local gravitationally-bound group look like they are all moving away from you.
 
There are probably an infinite # of universes, and new ones are being created all the time (imo).

Nothing on this physical plane is eternal, imo. But other realms/dimensions are eternal (a concept we can't really comprehend - also imo).
 
BartenderElite said:
There are probably an infinite # of universes, and new ones are being created all the time (imo).
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I tend to think infinity is an abstract mathematical concept that does not manifest itself in physical reality.

Infinity leads to mathematical contradictions. Removing all the odd numbers from an infinite set of numbers still leaves infinity. That implies infinity minus infinity equals infinity. I am dubious that a concept that results in mathematical contradictions can manifest in physical reality
 
Cypress said:
I tend to think infinity is an abstract mathematical concept that does not manifest itself in physical reality.

Infinity leads to mathematical contradictions. Removing all the odd numbers from an infinite set of numbers still leaves infinity. That implies infinity minus infinity equals infinity. I am dubious that a concept that results in mathematical contradictions can manifest in physical reality
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If the universe is not infinite and eternal, what came before it?

We don't have to have units of time to realize that anything that came into being and is not manifested in backwards infinity
had to have something before it.

The only comprehensible choices are being eternal or coming after something.
It applies to both time and space, actually.
If the universe is not infinite, what's outside it's boundaries?

The mathematical contradiction must be the reality.
I like the most probable theory.
If I see hoof prints in my garden, I'm not going to guess zebras first.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
If the universe is not infinite and eternal, what came before it?

We don't have to have units of time to realize that anything that came into being and is not manifested in backwards infinity
had to have something before it.

The only comprehensible choices are being eternal or coming after something.
It applies to both time and space, actually.
If the universe is not infinite, what's outside it's boundaries?

The mathematical contradiction must be the reality.
I like the most probable theory.
If I see hoof prints in my garden, I'm not going to guess zebras first.
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The mathematical theorem mentioned in the first post only applies to spacetime. Whatever came before that absolute spacetime beginning, if anything, is something other than spacetime.

The absolute energy balance of the universe seems to imply the universe came from nothing, at least not something we can comprehend in our physical spacetime framework
 
Cypress said:
The mathematical theorem mentioned in the first post only applies to spacetime. Whatever came before that absolute spacetime beginning, if anything, is something other than spacetime.

The absolute energy balance of the universe seems to imply the universe came from nothing, at least not something we can comprehend in our physical spacetime framework
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My eyelids are drooping and my head keeps nodding.
What I really comprehend the least is how is haven't had a nap yet.
Please excuse me for a couple of hours
 
Cypress said:
The mathematical theorem mentioned in the first post only applies to spacetime. Whatever came before that absolute spacetime beginning, if anything, is something other than spacetime.

The absolute energy balance of the universe seems to imply the universe came from nothing, at least not something we can comprehend in our physical spacetime framework
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This forms a paradox.
 
Cypress said:
Alexander Valentin does not cite God. I think what he's saying is we have to confront the reality that the universe began to exist at an absolute spacetime boundary, and cannot be extended infinitely far into the past.
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His nonscientific theory (and religion) describes a 'boundary' to the Universe. The Universe, however, has no known boundary.
 
Daylight63 said:
You just made a claim about the universe like you knew something.
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Nope. YOU DID.
Daylight63 said:
Since you have no way to know if you are human, you pretty much have to be God.
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I don't have to be God to know there is no known boundary of the Universe.
Daylight63 said:
The alternative is that you are just another know-nothing blowhard shitposter. SO which are yoU?
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Mantra 1a. Lame.
Daylight63 said:
And you've seen it?
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Seen what, Twilight?
 
Into the Night said:
The Universe has no known boundary. What's 'expanding'??
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Clearly you didn't comprehend the OP. According to Vilenkin, the BGV theorem postulates that if you roll the clock backwards you eventually run up against an absolute spacetime boundary dividing physical existence from non-existence.
 
Cypress said:
Clearly you didn't comprehend the OP. According to Vilenkin, the BGV theorem postulates that if you roll the clock backwards you eventually run up against an absolute spacetime boundary dividing physical existence from non-existence.
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I once heard a cosmologist (Hawking? I'm not sure now) who summed it thusly: The question "what happened BEFORE TIME?" is effectively a meaningless question.

Kind of a mind-fuck when you think about it.
 
Daylight63 said:
I once heard a cosmologist (Hawking? I'm not sure now) who summed it thusly: The question "what happened BEFORE TIME?" is effectively a meaningless question.

Kind of a mind-fuck when you think about it.
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That's not the right question. The question is not to ask what was happening before time. The right question is to ask why matter and energy blinked into existence out of nothing.
 
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