Did you know [i]1984[/i] was really about western liberalism?

Minister of Truth said:
Anyone committed to liberalism needs to accept that market liberalism is part of the package.
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It might surprise you, but I actually somewhat agree with you. I am not a full (conservative) Neo-Liberal, but I do think the market has an important role in progress, and must be allowed to be somewhat free. I am more of Third Way, to use more British terminology. The market cannot go unregulated, but the market is an amazing force that we do not want to regulate out of existence, even if we could, which we cannot.

Orwell was from a different time, and would have dismissed your concerns out of hat.
 
Cypress said:
On balance, social democrats and liberals were the most committed and effective opponents of Soviet totalitarian communism. Because their opposition was based on ideas and principles like human rights, freedom, democracy.

Conservatives mainly hated communism because they feared communists would take their money and wealth
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Great post!
 
Cypress said:
Orwell was a lifelong committed democratic socialist, who fought in the Spanish civil war and saw both the dark side of Nazi-backed fascism and Soviet-backed communism there, and his novel was written in that context
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The Russians don't think we're supposed to know that.

I give you credit, C.
You're still flying that flag, trying to separate the Russian people from the Russian government.
The question is, Why then, can't they ever put together a good one?
 
Walt said:
Orwell saw British style liberalism as the best defense against tyranny. I assume you see American style conservatism as the best defense against tyranny. My only question is why does it upset you so much that people are allowed to disagree with you?
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They have hatespeech laws in the UK like liberals wanted here. It ain't nothin' but a huge mess.
 
Matt Dillon said:
They have hatespeech laws in the UK like liberals wanted here. It ain't nothin' but a huge mess.
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Funny how you are free to parrot Russian propaganda, with no legal repercussions, but Russians are not even allowed to say the word "war" without spending years in prison. You can even speak out against the laws of the UK, in the UK, that is the amount of freedom you have.

Back to the Russian claims about Orwell. Orwell lived in a time that fascists literally marched on the streets of London, attacking people. He was calling on a tougher line against them, while still preserving as much of individual freedoms as possible. So I think he would understand the current dilemma.
 
Walt said:
Funny how you are free to parrot Russian propaganda, with no legal repercussions, but Russians are not even allowed to say the word "war" without spending years in prison. You can even speak out against the laws of the UK, in the UK, that is the amount of freedom you have.

Back to the Russian claims about Orwell. Orwell lived in a time that fascists literally marched on the streets of London, attacking people. He was calling on a tougher line against them, while still preserving as much of individual freedoms as possible. So I think he would understand the current dilemma.
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I don't live in the UK, I live in America, motherfucker!

A place where I can assert (and correctly, might I add) that Puerto-Ricans are the niggers of the Latin world.

Just ask a Mexican, Cuban, or South American from any country you want. :laugh:

Columbian, Honduran, Paraguayan, it don't matter; The consensus is in!

Not all are, the real Boris are cool as fuck, but a lot are pieces of shit.
 
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Walt said:
What you said could be said in the UK.



It is amazing how open the Republicans have become about their Neo-Nazism.
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That's a totally American (Both North and South) sentiment, oh Commie boy.

The real Boris are great, but they're not a majority. Usually older, too.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
The Russians don't think we're supposed to know that.

I give you credit, C.
You're still flying that flag, trying to separate the Russian people from the Russian government.
The question is, Why then, can't they ever put together a good one?
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It's unrealistic to expect that the Russian people would get from Communist rule to a functioning liberal republic in such a short span of time.
 
Walt said:
It might surprise you, but I actually somewhat agree with you. I am not a full (conservative) Neo-Liberal, but I do think the market has an important role in progress, and must be allowed to be somewhat free. I am more of Third Way, to use more British terminology. The market cannot go unregulated, but the market is an amazing force that we do not want to regulate out of existence, even if we could, which we cannot.

Orwell was from a different time, and would have dismissed your concerns out of hat.
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Orwell likely would have gone from arguing with totalitarians to arguing with the New Right. Today, he would be a perfect guest on Bill Maher's show, expressing concern that progressives are using his works as a cookbook for making omelettes.

I think social democrats and traditionalist conservatives are the two guys at a table in the back of a bar, drinking together because they figure no one else wants to talk.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
The Russians don't think we're supposed to know that.

I give you credit, C.
You're still flying that flag, trying to separate the Russian people from the Russian government.
The question is, Why then, can't they ever put together a good one?
Click to expand...

If you are interested in finding people to look down on for not establishing functioning liberal democracies, you can consider yourself superior to over half of the humans on the planet today, and about 99.99 percent of all humans who ever lived.
 
Cypress said:
If you are interested in finding people to look down on for not establishing functioning liberal democracies, you can consider yourself superior to over half of the humans on the planet today, and about 99.99 percent of all humans who ever lived.
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I love Italy with full knowledge of their failures. Russia has been infinitely worse at establishing governments than even Italy.
If they can't do it, how can we expect them to do it?
People at an earlier stage of evolution are not those against whom I measure myself, by the way.
 
Minister of Truth said:
It's unrealistic to expect that the Russian people would get from Communist rule to a functioning liberal republic in such a short span of time.
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Why? We've already given them a great example of how NOT to do it, and the more modern, European parliamentary governments have shown them the right way to do it.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I love Italy with full knowledge of their failures. Russia has been infinitely worse at establishing governments than even Italy.
If they can't do it, how can we expect them to do it?
People at an earlier stage of evolution are not those against whom I measure myself, by the way.
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So..right around a troglodyte?
 
Matt Dillon said:
You're free to take your ass elsewhere where they do, cupcake.
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If I'm a cupcake, what are you. Miss Kitty--a toilet puck?
Does it hurt to be that stupid?

Did your parents sniff household cleaners before conceiving you?
Your dad needed to throw a bag on it.
You were never necessary.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
If I'm a cupcake, what are you. Miss Kitty--a toilet puck?
Does it hurt to be that stupid?

Did your parents sniff household cleaners before conceiving you?
Your dad needed to throw a bag on it.
You were never necessary.
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You were never wanted or loved. :awesome:

Actually you were adopted.
 
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