Does a State have a right to secede from a Union?

[Tranquillus in Exile]

In the United Kingdom the right of a constituent state to secede is recognized in practice. For example, Scotland or indeed England could secede, leaving the rest to make the best of it; and good luck with that.

In Spain the right of a province to secede is definitely not recognized, as we saw with Catalonia a few years ago. I think we can hazard a guess that the situation would be the same in France, not to mention Russia, China etc.

In the United States the situation is more complicated, considering that the nation itself was founded by secession:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What do you think – could a State legally secede?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

if California left we should cheer......

 

[Ross Dolan]

My guess: Probably YES.

I'm not a lawyer...just a guess.

My feelings are that people now alive will find out for certain...that the notion will be tested.

It also is my opinion that the United States should probably end up being three different countries...The NorthEast; the South/midWest; and the West.

We'd all be better off...and so would the world for our doing so.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

In the United Kingdom the right of a constituent state to secede is recognized in practice. For example, Scotland or indeed England could secede, leaving the rest to make the best of it; and good luck with that.

In Spain the right of a province to secede is definitely not recognized, as we saw with Catalonia a few years ago. I think we can hazard a guess that the situation would be the same in France, not to mention Russia, China etc.

In the United States the situation is more complicated, considering that the nation itself was founded by secession:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What do you think – could a State legally secede?

I don't know about the whole state of Michigan, but I sure wish that our part (the UP) could secede and join Canada.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

My guess: Probably YES.

I'm not a lawyer...just a guess.

My feelings are that people now alive will find out for certain...that the notion will be tested.

It also is my opinion that the United States should probably end up being three different countries...The NorthEast; the South/midWest; and the West.

We'd all be better off...and so would the world for our doing so.

the chinese strategy is to divide and conquer us.

why do you love the ccp?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

In the United Kingdom the right of a constituent state to secede is recognized in practice. For example, Scotland or indeed England could secede, leaving the rest to make the best of it; and good luck with that.

In Spain the right of a province to secede is definitely not recognized, as we saw with Catalonia a few years ago. I think we can hazard a guess that the situation would be the same in France, not to mention Russia, China etc.

In the United States the situation is more complicated, considering that the nation itself was founded by secession:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What do you think – could a State legally secede?

Not after the Civil War. Before, yes.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

the chinese strategy is to divide and conquer us.

why do you love the ccp?

Since you are a well-known divider and hater of Americans, are you working willingly for the Chinese or are you just an unwilling stooge for them?

 

[floridafan]

the chinese strategy is to divide and conquer us.

why do you love the ccp?

Are you intimately acquainted with Chinese strategy, or just FOS as usual?

 

[Ross Dolan]

the chinese strategy is to divide and conquer us.

why do you love the ccp?

Great logic. Where did you get your degree...Walmart?

Anyway, the Republican Party strategy is to divide America and make it ungovernable. Why do you love the disgusting traitors of the GOP?

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Great logic. Where did you get your degree...Walmart?

Anyway, the Republican Party strategy is to divide America and make it ungovernable. Why do you love the disgusting traitors of the GOP?

Both party apparatuses are doing that.

Luckily trumpers aren't really republican.

We're the change you want to see in the world.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Both party apparatuses are doing that.

I am a registered, capital "I" Independent...and I can tell you that what the two parties are NOT doing the same thing. The Republican Party is doing its best to divide America and to make it ungovernable. Many Republican Party stalwarts have acknowledge that. The Democrats are not doing that.

I suspect you see that, but your conditioning won't allow you to acknowledge it.

Luckily trumpers aren't really republican.

I don't know what they are, but I consider them demented scum. They do vote Republican, however, so even if they are not Republicans, they help spread the carnage.

We're the change you want to see in the world.

Not sure who you think is part of that "We" you just mentioned, but YOU are not giving me any reason to suppose YOU are part of what I want to see in this world.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

I am a registered, capital "I" Independent...and I can tell you that what the two parties are NOT doing the same thing. The Republican Party is doing its best to divide America and to make it ungovernable. Many Republican Party stalwarts have acknowledge that. The Democrats are not doing that.

I suspect you see that, but your conditioning won't allow you to acknowledge it.



I don't know what they are, but I consider them demented scum. They do vote Republican, however, so even if they are not Republicans, they help spread the carnage.



Not sure who you think is part of that "We" you just mentioned, but YOU are not giving me any reason to suppose YOU are part of what I want to see in this world.

no.

democrats are not willing to compromise, it's "baby murder or fuck you".

and it's "we will normalize child genital mutilation at school or fuck you"

and it's "we will guilt your white children or fuck you".

 

[archives]

if California left we should cheer......

You kidding, without California paying taxes a good number of your Red States would go under

 

[archives]

In the United Kingdom the right of a constituent state to secede is recognized in practice. For example, Scotland or indeed England could secede, leaving the rest to make the best of it; and good luck with that.

In Spain the right of a province to secede is definitely not recognized, as we saw with Catalonia a few years ago. I think we can hazard a guess that the situation would be the same in France, not to mention Russia, China etc.

In the United States the situation is more complicated, considering that the nation itself was founded by secession:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What do you think – could a State legally secede?

Sure, why not, if a State pulled out they wouldn’t fall under any existing laws of the country they were leaving

Wouldn’t mind seeing it happen, can think of at least a dozen that based upon what they contribute and offer, wouldn’t be missed, a but it ain’t happening. Instead we will grind ahead for at least another generation stuck in mediocrity until minority rule fades

 

[PostmodernProphet]

You kidding, without California paying taxes a good number of your Red States would go under

not really......and the SS and Medicare funds would be in the black instantly.....

 

[archives]

not really......and the SS and Medicare funds would be in the black instantly.....

Wrong, it is the Blue States taxes that carry the burden, without them, a whole lot of Red States would be bankrupt, and it ain’t Blue States where the snowbirds flock

 

[Ross Dolan]

no.

democrats are not willing to compromise, it's "baby murder or fuck you".

and it's "we will normalize child genital mutilation at school or fuck you"

and it's "we will guilt your white children or fuck you".

If you want to think that way...fine.

But that kind of thinking is what the Republicans are proposing...and that is the bullshit that is dividing our country and making it damn near ungovernable.

At no point has any Democrat that I know of ever proposed it is okay to murder babies.

At no point has any Democrat that I know of ever proposed to normalize child genital mutilation at school...or anywhere else.

I certainly have seen Democrats who advocate for teaching the truth about our nation's history. I have no idea of why you assholes think there is something wrong with that.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

If you want to think that way...fine.

But that kind of thinking is what the Republicans are proposing...and that is the bullshit that is dividing our country and making it damn near ungovernable.

At no point has any Democrat that I know of ever proposed it is okay to murder babies.

At no point has any Democrat that I know of ever proposed to normalize child genital mutilation at school...or anywhere else.

I certainly have seen Democrats who advocate for teaching the truth about our nation's history. I have no idea of why you assholes think there is something wrong with that.

you're just not paying attention.

you support baby murder, but you call it an "unconditional support of a woman's choice".

You lie to yourself with word games, dum dum.

 

[Into the Night]

In the United Kingdom the right of a constituent state to secede is recognized in practice. For example, Scotland or indeed England could secede, leaving the rest to make the best of it; and good luck with that.

In Spain the right of a province to secede is definitely not recognized, as we saw with Catalonia a few years ago. I think we can hazard a guess that the situation would be the same in France, not to mention Russia, China etc.

In the United States the situation is more complicated, considering that the nation itself was founded by secession:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What do you think – could a State legally secede?

Yes. A State voluntarily joined the Union. It can voluntarily leave it at any time.

Should that happen, it will no longer enjoy the common defense provided by the federal government. The State would become an independent nation.

Part of the requirements to become a State of the Union is to become a republic. It MUST have a constitution. It also MUST conform to the Constitution of the United States.
Two States have already left...the State of California is no more. I call it the SDTC now (The Socialist Dictatorship of the Territory of California). The SDTC no longer recognizes the Constitution of the United States nor it's own State constitution. The nation is a dictatorship now, holding sham elections from time to time.

I note that quite a few citizens in the SDTC still celebrate the Union though.

The other is the State of New York. I call it the SOTNY now (The Socialist Oligarchy of the Territory of New York). Like California, New York no longer recognizes the Constitution of the United States nor it's own State constitution.

Today, of course, the United States itself has fallen through a silent coup by Democrats. I call it the SODC now, or simply The Oligarchy. The States of the Union have effectively become independent, each deciding their own futures; whether to support The Oligarchy, remain independent, or attempt to reform a Union using a constitution of some kind.

It seems most States wish to remain republics, and wish to reform or re-establish a Union. That might not be easy, considering the nature of oligarchies and dictators to not recognize any constitution.

I see no future ahead except civil war, the first this nation has ever fought. It's only a matter of time now.

Democrats want to take your property, your guns, your liberty, your children, your business, your wealth. They consider themselves 'The Elite'. They have already destroyed educational institutions, many businesses, and many lives. They will kill for their agenda. They will lie, steal, kill, and project their own problems on everyone else. They are racists, bigots, and slavers; and they always have been. They have no problem burning cities, looting and pillaging, using thuggery, or even killing people. They are the supporters and funders of Antifa, BLM, Planned Parenthood, PETA, the KKK, and other violent groups.

Not too long from now, it will no longer be possible to remain polite. People WILL defend their homes, themselves and their loved ones, and their businesses. Nothing can stop it. No oppression, no gun laws, no name calling, no projection, and no censorship will stop it.

Prepare yourselves.

 

[Into the Night]

if California left we should cheer......

They already left. I am not cheering. It's sad what's happened to the SDTC.