Self preservation is an instinct, but I bet the people who literally "fear" death are the ones who look back retrospectively and realize their life didn't mean anything and they completely wasted the gift of life they were provided. In other words, the losers, the Incels, the morally corrupt, the socially offensive and the social outcasts
Does natural selection explain human behavior?
- Thread starter Cypress
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Self preservation is an instinct, but I bet the people who literally "fear" death are the ones who look back retrospectively and realize their life didn't mean anything and they completely wasted the gift of life they were provided. In other words, the losers, the Incels, the morally corrupt, the socially offensive and the social outcasts
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
An excellent observation, Cypress, and agreed. I can see why that same retrospective look and recognition that they wasted their lives would cause some to become very angry, very defensive and seek to blame others for their failures.
...in short; Trumpers. The MAGAts. They all seem to have this in common.
What they all also seem to have in common is failing to see that today is new day. They can change if they wish. They can't change the past, but they can change the present actions and behaviors if they so choose.
Mason Michaels
Verified User
Human behavior comes down to you're either ruled by your flesh or your Spirit!
Bitter old men probably didn't live an authentic life, filled with love, family, values, virtues, and integrity.
That's probably why as death approaches they wallow in resentment, bitterness, and petty grievances.
You seem to be making assumptions about what serves evolutionary ends.
What evolutionary end does it serve for a dog to lie in the sun? Dogs don't have chlorophyll.
Humans certainly survive better when they work as a group. Does art help to bring humans together as a group? Everything a species does isn't for survival and doesn't need to be for survival. The only thing evolution needs is for that species to be better equipped for their environment than another species. Human intelligence is like any other trait in evolution. It doesn't have to serve solely to better the species. Without exploring things like art would we have been able to build rockets or fashion spears? Ancient humans didn't need to hunt every minute of every day. Communication and exploring novel ideas certainly are not evolutionary dead ends.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
I've been told, sometime back in the previous century, actually,
that nothing can explain my behavior.
Young people don't usually listen to parents or teachers,
and I was no exception,
but for whatever reason,
I do remember that.
that nothing can explain my behavior.
Young people don't usually listen to parents or teachers,
and I was no exception,
but for whatever reason,
I do remember that.
Dogs sleep and relax in the sun for the same reason humans do. Sleep and relaxation are biological necessities.
There is nothing about symbolic cave painting, a symphony by Mozart, an abstract philosohical idea that is needed, required, or logically neccessary for genetic descent with modification, which is what natural selection is.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Could be. Dementia may cause them to forget the joys of their past life and become selfish, paranoid little fuckwits.
Agreed. Instead of getting help, they'd rather wallow in self-pity and berate others for their misfortunate. This attitude would drive family away and reinforce their feelings of loneliness, abandonment and self-centeredness.
The article below points out that self-pity may actually be self-hatred:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/constructive-wallowing/201504/the-paradox-self-pity
The Paradox of Self-Pity
Those you think are wallowing in it may actually not have any at all.
Good point. That might explain all the bitter old farts here.
I think self pity is a kind of self loathing
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Agreed. The old farts gather together to spread their hate and misery against others since they refuse to accept responsibility for themselves. This is a self-defeating form of self-loathing since it has no successful outcome. None of them are getting better after the past few years and most seem to be getting worse. Sailor and Terry are two that spring to mind.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
I don't know, Oom. Maybe.
I think that we make a lot of assumption on human behavior that are largely intuitive and not clinically verifiable.
Before Vietnam, I used to hit the road and run every morning before school,
hit the gym right after school,
and then drinks lots of coffee at night to stay awake and study.
My day was 100% full.
After military service, I smoked a pack and a half of unfiltered Camels each day,
profaned of both exercise and diet control,
and worked only at what I could do comfortably, not at what would maximize my income.
I spent my evenings in bars with the Gestapo until the kids arrived.
When the kids came,
I discovered how much I loved to spend time in my own recliner in my own home.
I didn't have "Leave me the fuck alone" tattooed on my forehead,
but everybody could see it anyway.
Some are going to read this and accuse me of complaining about my military service.
They'll be wrong.
Regardless of how I feel about my military service,
this has NOTHING to do with that.
I'm not complaining or even commenting on WHY I changed.
I'm not even regretting the changes.
I'm simply explaining HOW I changed, because a lot of it was behavioral, and that's the topic of this thread.
I didn't become a new person.
Lots of things about me didn't change.
Still major things, largely in the realm of behavior, did.
I don't honestly know what changed.
It would be easy to say the war,
but just as easy to say that the war marked the time, not the reason, it happened.
I believe in psychiatry and the treating of mental conditions as being organically manifested.
As for psychological therapists--I guess I mean psychologists--
I've seem nothing to suggest that they're not all completely full of shit.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Can't clinically verify on an anonymous chat forum, but behavior can still be observed. Do you believe there's enough evidence on JPP that Into the Night, gfm7175 and IBDaMann are the same person? If so, why would a person deny they are the same and continue such behavior? Do you think some JPP members are angry and violent enough to act out IRL? Would it suprise you if certain members ended up in the news for committing mass murder?
First, an education on differences: https://www.verywellmind.com/psychologists-vs-psychiatrists-what-is-the-difference-2795761
Psychologists lean more toward research and psychiatrists more toward medical mental health treatments. Same goes for therapists.
My interest has always been research and, as part of my career job requirements, assessing people for fitness for duty. Any "problem children" need to be identified and moved off the mission/flight. My job wasn't to help anyone, but to protect the mission/flight.
After 40 years experience in this application of psychology, I enjoy applying it to MAGAts, other political extremists and JPP wackadoodles.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
I'd argue that abstract thought, which is communicated to others and discussed, is what higher-level social animals do as part of being social and forming community.
The same is true of objects of beauty -- enjoying them together is a social bonding experience. And sadly, sometimes so is destroying them, something we're also good at.
Altruism is definitely a survival trait on a species-wide level. IMO it is also another function of creating and protecting social bonds. Relief organizations, Gofundme appeals, and charity drives are good examples.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
You accidentally point out the crux of the matter, Oom, in a stealth, indirect way.
I'm too self-centered to be concerned about what's going on in somebody else's head.
As always, my long post is about myself;
Obviously, I'm neither seeking nor imparting information.
I just vent things out of my head
so I don't have to think about them until the next time they return.
I'll look at the link. Thanks.
Certainly social bonding serves a Darwinian purpose in terms of protection, resource sharing, infant rearing.
There are lots of pack animals in the world, but as far as we know there has never been a species capable of abstract thought the way humans do.
Their are also unique Human behaviors that have nothing to do with bonding: the wandering ascetic mystic in India, the solitary Christian monk in the Egyptian desert, the Greek natural philosopher contemplating the cosmos.
As far as we know, we are the only species that contemplates the meaning of life, creates art, creates religion, performs abstract reasoning.
Altruism in the mammalian world seems to only function in family groups or packs. That makes evolutionary sense. I've never heard of a lion pride bringing food to a different lion pride.
I really don't think we can point to Charles Darwin to explain it all. I am prepared to admit that science, as it currently stands, does not explain everything about everything. There may be a science of mind or a science of conciousness we haven't even invented yet that will provide better insights into the human behavior
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Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Agreed on altruism, even on a tribal or higher level much less species-wide.
Excellent point about social bonding. Human beings have been around for about 300,000 years. When trying to understand their behavior, I think it's important to look at their state of existence across the majority of that time: tribal cultures. Most of our history begins with writing which began with (or allowed) cities. If that is 10,000 years, then the other 290,000 years (the remaining 97% of human existence) was spent in tribal cultures.
IMO, the results of evolution would have occurred during that 97% of time, not the 3% we are experiencing as civilized humans.
Dogs don't just sleep in the sun. There is no evolutionary end to sleep in the sun as opposed to the shade. There is no evolutionary end to sleep during the day. There is no logically necessary evolutionary reason to sleep in the sun.
You are starting with the same misconception that evolution deniers start with. You assume everything must have a reason under evolution. That is false. Evolution doesn't care what a species does. Evolution only matters when two species are competing for the same resources that one can out compete. Art is about imagination. Science is about imagination. They are similar in that respect. Does science help our species survive? For that matter religion is about imagination.
The bottom line is nothing about a species has to have a reason to exist from an evolutionary standpoint. If a species has 100 traits, it might be only 1 of those traits that allowed it to not become extinct.
Sleeping in the sun not only feels good, there are physiological benefits to both humans and animals. We absorb Vitamin D from sunlight, and it probably has therapeutic pain relief benefits for older dogs with bone conditions.
I'm not an evolution denier.
The problem with radical atheists is they think any discussion of uncertainty in science just gives ammunition to the Holy Rollers.
Scientists love unanswered questions, and I have never met a scientist who said we have figured out everything there is to know about human conciousness and behavior.
I don't think we yet have a science that explains human conciousness and subjective mental experience. I don't think it can be swept under the rug by saying Darwin explains it all. And there are plenty of scientists and philosophers that agree with me.
BidenPresident
Verified User
Most scientists and philosophers disagree with you.
I will chalk you up as the type that believes science has explained everything about human conciousness, and that we can just point to Charles Darwin to explain everything about human culture and behavior.