Don't Ask, Don't TELL

[Billy the Great Khan]

"News reports say a package has exploded at Chile's embassy in Rome following a parcel bombing at Switzerland's embassy earlier in the day.

The ANSA news agency says one person was believed to be injured in the blast at the Chilean embassy. Police say the person who opened the package at the Swiss embassy was also seriously injured"...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/23/reports-blast-swiss-embassy-wounds/

Looks like the critics of repeal were right! Terrorists are so enraged at the prospect of openly gay US servicepeople that they have struck already!

Nothing sends a better message about U.S. policy than attacking Chile in Rome. God forbid they bomb the Belize embassy in Mozambique because of Russia's space program/

 

[Damocles]

It's interesting to note, they didn't become known as the Tuskegee Airmen until long after the war. Prior to that, they were just called black pilots. Racial discrimination against blacks, and our history of slavery, etc. makes the examples of race invalid compared to prejudice against homosexuals. Sorry, but the two examples are just not related, and the more people attempt to draw a parallel, the more pointless it becomes. If you just stubbornly want to believe it's the same thing, motivated by the same kind of bigotry, and perpetrated with the same motivations for the same reasons, that's up to you, but it's not the same thing, and never will be.

My point wasn't that they "are the same" only that people tend to use the same tired argument. The reality is the vast majority in the military right now said they wouldn't care and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

My point wasn't that they "are the same" only that people tend to use the same tired argument. The reality is the vast majority in the military right now said they wouldn't care and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I'm not making anything out of anything, I didn't start the thread! I gave my opinion on the subject, I didn't make a mountain out of it. I don't believe the military is the place to showcase social tolerance, sorry, just don't think that's appropriate. I also don't think the military is the place to be concerned about individual sexuality, regardless of what kind it is. You don't join the military to have your sexuality recognized, and recognition of it, has nothing whatsoever to do with being a soldier. I would say this about straight people who wanted to 'flaunt' their heterosexual prowess as well.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I'm not making anything out of anything, I didn't start the thread! I gave my opinion on the subject, I didn't make a mountain out of it. I don't believe the military is the place to showcase social tolerance, sorry, just don't think that's appropriate. I also don't think the military is the place to be concerned about individual sexuality, regardless of what kind it is. You don't join the military to have your sexuality recognized, and recognition of it, has nothing whatsoever to do with being a soldier. I would say this about straight people who wanted to 'flaunt' their heterosexual prowess as well.

And yet when your "opinion" was asked for clarification, you ran like raped ape and put me on ignore.
Plus you continue to use "catch phrases" like flaunt, showcase, etc.

 

[Minister of Truth]

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm not making anything out of anything, I didn't start the thread! I gave my opinion on the subject, I didn't make a mountain out of it. I don't believe the military is the place to showcase social tolerance, sorry, just don't think that's appropriate. I also don't think the military is the place to be concerned about individual sexuality, regardless of what kind it is. You don't join the military to have your sexuality recognized, and recognition of it, has nothing whatsoever to do with being a soldier. I would say this about straight people who wanted to 'flaunt' their heterosexual prowess as well.

Dixie, I have seen no one say that homosexuals should flaunt their sexuality. This is not about a concern for individual sexuality. This is about not discharging gays. They will not be granted any special privileges or allowed to wear pink fatigues. They are still in the military. They just get to stay there.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, I have seen no one say that homosexuals should flaunt their sexuality. This is not about a concern for individual sexuality. This is about not discharging gays. They will not be granted any special privileges or allowed to wear pink fatigues. They are still in the military. They just get to stay there.

Look, I don't see that we had some big huge major problem with droves of gay people being kicked out of the military, hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic! The military is about training soldiers to fight wars, not sexual preferences. If a soldier's sexuality becomes more of a priority issue than being a soldier and following orders, then they don't deserve to be in the military, doesn't matter if they are straight, gay, bi, or fuck midgets! They are not there to have their sexual lifestyle legitimized or acknowledged in any way. It has nothing to do with why they are in the military.

Why don't you try and be honest with people for once and stop lying to them? This was not about poor gay soldiers getting kicked out of the army, this was about Gay Rights, and the Gay Marriage agenda, and finding a way to infiltrate the Federal government, so as to have it ultimately 'legitimize' gay marriages. Gay couple goes to a state where Gay Marriage is legal, get's hitched, joins the service, and they apply for base housing and benies... *poof* you instantly have the Federal Government of the United States, in a position of having to recognize (and therefore legitimize) gay marriage! This is enabled because of a repeal of DADT, and no one blinks an eye over that.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Look, I don't see that we had some big huge major problem with droves of gay people being kicked out of the military, hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic! The military is about training soldiers to fight wars, not sexual preferences. If a soldier's sexuality becomes more of a priority issue than being a soldier and following orders, then they don't deserve to be in the military, doesn't matter if they are straight, gay, bi, or fuck midgets! They are not there to have their sexual lifestyle legitimized or acknowledged in any way. It has nothing to do with why they are in the military.

Why don't you try and be honest with people for once and stop lying to them? This was not about poor gay soldiers getting kicked out of the army, this was about Gay Rights, and the Gay Marriage agenda, and finding a way to infiltrate the Federal government, so as to have it ultimately 'legitimize' gay marriages. Gay couple goes to a state where Gay Marriage is legal, get's hitched, joins the service, and they apply for base housing and benies... *poof* you instantly have the Federal Government of the United States, in a position of having to recognize (and therefore legitimize) gay marriage! This is enabled because of a repeal of DADT, and no one blinks an eye over that.

I found the video that you made, where you do much better explaining yourself.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPPUrZOmnUE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPPUrZOmnUE[/ame]

 

[WinterBorn]

Look, I don't see that we had some big huge major problem with droves of gay people being kicked out of the military, hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic! The military is about training soldiers to fight wars, not sexual preferences. If a soldier's sexuality becomes more of a priority issue than being a soldier and following orders, then they don't deserve to be in the military, doesn't matter if they are straight, gay, bi, or fuck midgets! They are not there to have their sexual lifestyle legitimized or acknowledged in any way. It has nothing to do with why they are in the military.

Why don't you try and be honest with people for once and stop lying to them? This was not about poor gay soldiers getting kicked out of the army, this was about Gay Rights, and the Gay Marriage agenda, and finding a way to infiltrate the Federal government, so as to have it ultimately 'legitimize' gay marriages. Gay couple goes to a state where Gay Marriage is legal, get's hitched, joins the service, and they apply for base housing and benies... *poof* you instantly have the Federal Government of the United States, in a position of having to recognize (and therefore legitimize) gay marriage! This is enabled because of a repeal of DADT, and no one blinks an eye over that.

No Dixie, why don't you be honest for once and admit you hate gays and that they disgust you.

Not one single person has asked for any special privileges for gays in the military. They are all in the military to serve in a fighting force to protect this nation and its interests. They did not join to take warm showers and swap spit with marines. Your perverted mind might want to go there, but the liberals posting here have not.

You say sexuality doesn't matter, but there have been 12,500 military personnel discharged for being gay. It was running about 1,000 per year from 1994 to 2001. But the number dropped sharply when we went to war. Funny thing about that. They are not fit to serve and must be discharged, and then suddenly the discharges drop off suddenly?

I guess the gays are fit to die in combat afterall.

 

[WinterBorn]

Look, I don't see that we had some big huge major problem with droves of gay people being kicked out of the military, hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic!

As I said, there have been 12,500 military personnell discharged for being gay since 1994.

From 1994 to 2001, the average was 1,000 per year. But it has dropped to the point that the last 5 years has averaged only 730 per year.

So, under DADT, we went from discharge 19 a week to discharging only 14 a week. I guess in your mind they should be grateful for the drop???

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

No Dixie, why don't you be honest for once and admit you hate gays and that they disgust you.

Thanks for showing the bigoted perspective, from which you judge my postings.

I must admit, male on male gay sex does nothing for me. It is pretty disgusting and awkward for me to witness or even think about. But I figure, it's probably like bungee jumping, just not a sensation I am comfortable having, and I am fine with that. I can accept that other people might like kinky man butt sex... it just disgusts me.

As for homosexuals themselves, I have never had a problem socializing with them. I have often said, they are some of the most fun-loving people, very imaginative and creative, and most humorous people. Closet gays are a different subject, they're like you... judgmental and bitter, creating stereotypes and trying to be divisive and angry about injustices...and obsessing on and on about it for days and weeks at a time. I think you should just come out of the closet and accept your homosexuality, really! It would do you wonders, your whole disposition would change! Come on, WB... come out right here on the forum in front of us all... it will do you good man!

 

[WinterBorn]

Thanks for showing the bigoted perspective, from which you judge my postings.

I must admit, male on male gay sex does nothing for me. It is pretty disgusting and awkward for me to witness or even think about. But I figure, it's probably like bungee jumping, just not a sensation I am comfortable having, and I am fine with that. I can accept that other people might like kinky man butt sex... it just disgusts me.

As for homosexuals themselves, I have never had a problem socializing with them. I have often said, they are some of the most fun-loving people, very imaginative and creative, and most humorous people. Closet gays are a different subject, they're like you... judgmental and bitter, creating stereotypes and trying to be divisive and angry about injustices...and obsessing on and on about it for days and weeks at a time. I think you should just come out of the closet and accept your homosexuality, really! It would do you wonders, your whole disposition would change! Come on, WB... come out right here on the forum in front of us all... it will do you good man!

"Closet gays are a different subject, they're like you... judgmental and bitter, creating stereotypes and trying to be divisive and angry about injustices...and obsessing on and on about it for days and weeks at a time."

Now who does that sound like? Dixie, are you trying to tell us something? I have not done anything except put forth the idea that the repeal of DADT is a positive for this nation and our military. I have made no disparaging remarks about them. I have not tried to create false fear. I have not called people names for disagreeing with me.

And especially the "creating stereotypes". I would consider predicting that they want to make the military a "Gay Cabaret" is pretty much making stereotypes. And bitter? lol Dixie, nobody on this forum does bitter any better than you do.

 

[WinterBorn]

Thanks for showing the bigoted perspective, from which you judge my postings.

I must admit, male on male gay sex does nothing for me. It is pretty disgusting and awkward for me to witness or even think about. But I figure, it's probably like bungee jumping, just not a sensation I am comfortable having, and I am fine with that. I can accept that other people might like kinky man butt sex... it just disgusts me.

As for homosexuals themselves, I have never had a problem socializing with them. I have often said, they are some of the most fun-loving people, very imaginative and creative, and most humorous people. Closet gays are a different subject, they're like you... judgmental and bitter, creating stereotypes and trying to be divisive and angry about injustices...and obsessing on and on about it for days and weeks at a time. I think you should just come out of the closet and accept your homosexuality, really! It would do you wonders, your whole disposition would change! Come on, WB... come out right here on the forum in front of us all... it will do you good man!

I noticed you had no problem ignoring the real issue in my post. I can see where it would be easier to act all indignant, and ignore the numbers of gays discharged. That might ruin your "Look, I don't see that we had some big huge major problem with droves of gay people being kicked out of the military, hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic" nonsense and force you to acknowledge that DADT did solve a problem.

Couldn't have that, now could we?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Really, you should come out, you live in Alabama, maybe I can introduce you to some of my gay Southside friends? I bet you'd probably be an alright fella, if you came out of the closet with it and just embraced it, WB.

 

[WinterBorn]

Really, you should come out, you live in Alabama, maybe I can introduce you to some of my gay Southside friends? I bet you'd probably be an alright fella, if you came out of the closet with it and just embraced it, WB.

So no comment on the fact that 12,500 military personnel were discharged for being gay?

I mean, especially after you said "...hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic"?

Come on, Dixie, stick with the topic.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So no comment on the fact that 12,500 military personnel were discharged for being gay?

I mean, especially after you said "...hell, I don't see a whole lot of gay people even IN the military to get kicked out, much less being problematic"?

Come on, Dixie, stick with the topic.

I don't need to argue about DADT, it was repealed. Now, 12,500 military personnel won't be discharged for being gay. What is your argument? That this is somehow a good thing for our military, but how? Other than some pontificating bullshit 'thought' some pinhead came up with. I am at least honest and open enough to face reality, and realize there might be a problem with gay men serving "openly" in the military. You seem to want to live in denial of reality on that, and pretend that we live in some sterilized world, where everyone just accepts homosexuality as normal and okay. It's caused by your secret desire to live in such a world, where you wouldn't have to stay in the closet.

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't need to argue about DADT, it was repealed. Now, 12,500 military personnel won't be discharged for being gay. What is your argument? That this is somehow a good thing for our military, but how? Other than some pontificating bullshit 'thought' some pinhead came up with. I am at least honest and open enough to face reality, and realize there might be a problem with gay men serving "openly" in the military. You seem to want to live in denial of reality on that, and pretend that we live in some sterilized world, where everyone just accepts homosexuality as normal and okay. It's caused by your secret desire to live in such a world, where you wouldn't have to stay in the closet.

And yet you HAVE argued about DADT for all this time. You claim, in one breath, to not want to argue about it, and then post repeatedly that its a mistake.

It is good for our military in several ways, which I have already explained.

First, it stops us from losing high quality, qualified, well trained people to discharges for reasons that should not matter.

Second, it removes blackmail as a method of gaining intell from military personnel.

Third, it removes an official prejudice against sexual orientation.

I am not living in denial of the potential for problems with openly gay people serving in the military. But those problems will only be caused by the ignorant & paranoid members of our military. And we don't need them in there anyway.

And lest you forget, the military is not about whining and worrying about the bullshit. It is about fighting wars. The discipline in the military can cut out most of those issues.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And yet you HAVE argued about DADT for all this time. You claim, in one breath, to not want to argue about it, and then post repeatedly that its a mistake.

Because I believe it's a fucking monumental mistake. That's my opinion, and I told you why. I have not argued about DADT, it was repealed, the law changed, now we get to see what happens. You pinheads have already said "this is just a start" so when do we get to the Gays Have The Right To Stick Their Cock In Your Mouth On A Bus Act? Because... if there is no end to this, where else can it lead? You're not going to be satisfied until you turn everyone queer and we die off as a species??? I mean... wtf?

It is good for our military in several ways, which I have already explained.

No ya didn't! You yammered off a bunch of absolute nonsense that doesn't comport with reality.

First, it stops us from losing high quality, qualified, well trained people to discharges for reasons that should not matter.

How the fuck do you KNOW it doesn't matter? Maybe it DOES matter in their particular case? Maybe it's CRUCIAL to the case? You don't know every goddamn detail of every case, so let's not draw assumptions on them. It doesn't matter how well qualified or trained someone is, when it comes to being discharged from the military! Every case is individual, and stands on its own merit pursuant to the military code of justice. Being a homosexual doesn't alleviate you from following this, but that's what you think should be the case now, huh?

Second, it removes blackmail as a method of gaining intell from military personnel.

You couldn't list ANY example of that happening, and you actually posted a link to a source stating the Pentagon views homosexuals as a security risk because they are emotionally unstable. Repealing DADT didn't fix emotional stability!

Third, it removes an official prejudice against sexual orientation.

*DING DING DING* You finally got one right... I was worried, three strikes and you're out! But you nailed that one alright! It is purely for the purpose of Gay Rights Activists to pave the way for Federally recognized Gay Marriage. This is a segue to that.

I am not living in denial of the potential for problems with openly gay people serving in the military. But those problems will only be caused by the ignorant & paranoid members of our military. And we don't need them in there anyway.

Uhm no.. it will be a problem for roughly the same percentage of people in the general public it's a problem for. There is no reason to believe prejudice and disapproval of homosexuals in the military is any less prevalent than the general population. Most places, that's well over half the people, some places it's damn near unanimous. So you want to discharge 60% of the military?

And lest you forget, the military is not about whining and worrying about the bullshit. It is about fighting wars. The discipline in the military can cut out most of those issues.

We'll see about that.

 

[Jarod]

Because I believe it's a fucking monumental mistake. That's my opinion, and I told you why. I have not argued about DADT, it was repealed, the law changed, now we get to see what happens. You pinheads have already said "this is just a start" so when do we get to the Gays Have The Right To Stick Their Cock In Your Mouth On A Bus Act? Because... if there is no end to this, where else can it lead? You're not going to be satisfied until you turn everyone queer and we die off as a species??? I mean... wtf?



No ya didn't! You yammered off a bunch of absolute nonsense that doesn't comport with reality.



How the fuck do you KNOW it doesn't matter? Maybe it DOES matter in their particular case? Maybe it's CRUCIAL to the case? You don't know every goddamn detail of every case, so let's not draw assumptions on them. It doesn't matter how well qualified or trained someone is, when it comes to being discharged from the military! Every case is individual, and stands on its own merit pursuant to the military code of justice. Being a homosexual doesn't alleviate you from following this, but that's what you think should be the case now, huh?



You couldn't list ANY example of that happening, and you actually posted a link to a source stating the Pentagon views homosexuals as a security risk because they are emotionally unstable. Repealing DADT didn't fix emotional stability!



*DING DING DING* You finally got one right... I was worried, three strikes and you're out! But you nailed that one alright! It is purely for the purpose of Gay Rights Activists to pave the way for Federally recognized Gay Marriage. This is a segue to that.



Uhm no.. it will be a problem for roughly the same percentage of people in the general public it's a problem for. There is no reason to believe prejudice and disapproval of homosexuals in the military is any less prevalent than the general population. Most places, that's well over half the people, some places it's damn near unanimous. So you want to discharge 60% of the military?



We'll see about that.

I love that you belive every gay man wants to put his cock in your mouth....

 

[Socrtease]

I love that you belive every gay man wants to put his cock in your mouth....

I am not sure if he believes it, or just hopes it's so.