Earth, and everyone on it, is utterly and completely insginficant

Baalim said:
You think it's moral to allow someone to, say, rape a child, when they have the ability to stop it?
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Because God knows that any suffering felt by a baby being raped or someone being murdered is an infinitesimal amount of time in the grand scheme of things. A nanosecond of suffering is LITERALLY nothing if it's followed by an ETERNITY of joy. God knows some make bad choices that cause others pain, but ultimately, those who make bad choices get their eternal "reward" and those who suffered get eternity in Heaven.
 
Why would god give a damn about any of us in the first place when the entire cosmos dwarfs the entirity of our existece? I mean, does anyone here give a damn about ants, or more accurately, the microbes you erase from existence every time you do anything? In their eyes we could certainly be considered gods, and fuck if we care. We have gody affairs to attend to.
 
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Dixie said:
Can you clarify your comment? Do you think we don't have free will now, or are you saying that God is stupid to allow us to have free will?
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I am saying that if free will was given by God and it was truly free will, than our choices would not be punished. We would be free to make those choices. God, according to your belief determines what is right and what is wrong, your God also knows , according to your belief system what choices you will make. Then there is the whole Calvinist philosophy that God chooses who to "save"

Ciecero gave a great argument against free will.
 
Dixie said:
I guess this is where we're different. I happen to think the human mind is amazing. Some human minds are capable of genius, some are capable of creating profound beauty through their imaginations. The Bible says God created man in his image, and I don't know if that is true, we certainly aren't little God's running around. We are fallible and plagued with human emotional attributes, which I can't imagine any God would have.
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Yes, but a perfect god would make perfect humans. Most religions have made god in man's image, the Taoist say to name god is not god, it seems the most logical to me. If there is a god/goddess, I believe the are beyond our limited abilities to understand.
 
Rana said:
Yes, but a perfect god would make perfect humans. Most religions have made god in man's image, the Taoist say to name god is not god, it seems the most logical to me. If there is a god/goddess, I believe the are beyond our limited abilities to understand.
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That sums it up for me. There is surely a way of looking at things that is beyond this plane, that is well outside of what our brains can comprehend. Which is why I think it's equally possible that from that perspective, we'll look at our planet & lives as having much more significance than what we think of here....
 
Rana said:
I am saying that if free will was given by God and it was truly free will, than our choices would not be punished. We would be free to make those choices. God, according to your belief determines what is right and what is wrong, your God also knows , according to your belief system what choices you will make. Then there is the whole Calvinist philosophy that God chooses who to "save"

Ciecero gave a great argument against free will.
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And you derived all your understandings of my personal faith based on the fact that I made an argument for properly evaluating God's existence? I have never said that I believe God "determines what is right and wrong" ....those are beliefs you are applying to me without any evidence to support. I also didn't say that God knows what choices you will make... I honestly don't know where you get this stuff, but I never said them. I urge you to go back and read the OP carefully, then read the subsequent posts I've made, so we can have a somewhat rational and intelligent conversation.

Free will can be analogized by something you can relate to... Your parents trust you enough to give you the car keys to go out Saturday night. They expect you to stay out of trouble and obey the law. The fact they trust you with the car keys, doesn't mean you are not responsible for your actions. It doesn't mean you have their permission to do whatever you like, it just means you have the "free will" to do whatever you like, because they aren't there to stop you.... but what you do can either please or anger your parents, and whether or not you get the car keys again, may greatly depend on your behavior.
 
Rana said:
Yes, but a perfect god would make perfect humans. Most religions have made god in man's image, the Taoist say to name god is not god, it seems the most logical to me. If there is a god/goddess, I believe the are beyond our limited abilities to understand.
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Again, I urge you to actually READ and attempt to comprehend the OP in the 'Prove God Exists' thread, because I said essentially the same thing, aside from presuming God would make 'perfect' humans. Again, from a purely philosophical standpoint, how could we ever measure 'perfection' if there were no such thing as 'imperfection?'
 
Dixie said:
And you derived all your understandings of my personal faith based on the fact that I made an argument for properly evaluating God's existence? I have never said that I believe God "determines what is right and wrong" ....those are beliefs you are applying to me without any evidence to support. I also didn't say that God knows what choices you will make... I honestly don't know where you get this stuff, but I never said them. I urge you to go back and read the OP carefully, then read the subsequent posts I've made, so we can have a somewhat rational and intelligent conversation.

Free will can be analogized by something you can relate to... Your parents trust you enough to give you the car keys to go out Saturday night. They expect you to stay out of trouble and obey the law. The fact they trust you with the car keys, doesn't mean you are not responsible for your actions. It doesn't mean you have their permission to do whatever you like, it just means you have the "free will" to do whatever you like, because they aren't there to stop you.... but what you do can either please or anger your parents, and whether or not you get the car keys again, may greatly depend on your behavior.
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No, I make the rules, my children can go against my rules, but if they do, they know there are consequences. They are not free to do as they please. If they were, there would be no consequences, there would be no need for rules. I would just tell them, you are free to do as you please.

The very fact that you believe we have free will tells me that you believe the tenets of Christianity, whether you think you do or not, plus some of the previous posts that you have made and different arguments you have presented.
 
Rana said:
No, I make the rules, my children can go against my rules, but if they do, they know there are consequences. They are not free to do as they please. If they were, there would be no consequences, there would be no need for rules. I would just tell them, you are free to do as you please.

The very fact that you believe we have free will tells me that you believe the tenets of Christianity, whether you think you do or not, plus some of the previous posts that you have made and different arguments you have presented.
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I think you totally misunderstand the meaning of "free will." God never told man he was free to do whatever he pleased. And you also misinterpret my argument for "free will," I never stated that I believe God gives us free will, I was merely commenting on the aspects of what some do believe. If we didn't have this 'free will' and God simply zapped bad people whenever they did wrong, there wouldn't be much need for faith, there wouldn't be many who didn't believe in God. Now, if God were a person who had feelings, he might prefer a universe where all people believed in him and worshiped him, but God isn't a person. He doesn't really care if you believe or not, he doesn't lose any sleep over it, I am sure. People don't worship God because God demands it or requires it. They worship out of "free will" because they believe in God and are thankful for his many blessings. Now if it mattered one iota to God that you didn't go to church on Sunday, he could point his Godly finger at you and *zap* you'd be history. Again, if God did this, I doubt many of us would miss church. God's not a human being, he doesn't have selfish conceited humanistic feelings that require us to give him pleasure. This idea is a construction of man, who is completely incapable of understanding God.
 
Dixie said:
I think you totally misunderstand the meaning of "free will." God never told man he was free to do whatever he pleased. And you also misinterpret my argument for "free will," I never stated that I believe God gives us free will, I was merely commenting on the aspects of what some do believe. If we didn't have this 'free will' and God simply zapped bad people whenever they did wrong, there wouldn't be much need for faith, there wouldn't be many who didn't believe in God. Now, if God were a person who had feelings, he might prefer a universe where all people believed in him and worshiped him, but God isn't a person. He doesn't really care if you believe or not, he doesn't lose any sleep over it, I am sure. People don't worship God because God demands it or requires it. They worship out of "free will" because they believe in God and are thankful for his many blessings. Now if it mattered one iota to God that you didn't go to church on Sunday, he could point his Godly finger at you and *zap* you'd be history. Again, if God did this, I doubt many of us would miss church. God's not a human being, he doesn't have selfish conceited humanistic feelings that require us to give him pleasure. This idea is a construction of man, who is completely incapable of understanding God.
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why does he require us to worship him?

The bible says he is a jealous god....
 
Dixie said:
I think you totally misunderstand the meaning of "free will." God never told man he was free to do whatever he pleased. And you also misinterpret my argument for "free will," I never stated that I believe God gives us free will, I was merely commenting on the aspects of what some do believe. If we didn't have this 'free will' and God simply zapped bad people whenever they did wrong, there wouldn't be much need for faith, there wouldn't be many who didn't believe in God. Now, if God were a person who had feelings, he might prefer a universe where all people believed in him and worshiped him, but God isn't a person. He doesn't really care if you believe or not, he doesn't lose any sleep over it, I am sure. People don't worship God because God demands it or requires it. They worship out of "free will" because they believe in God and are thankful for his many blessings. Now if it mattered one iota to God that you didn't go to church on Sunday, he could point his Godly finger at you and *zap* you'd be history. Again, if God did this, I doubt many of us would miss church. God's not a human being, he doesn't have selfish conceited humanistic feelings that require us to give him pleasure. This idea is a construction of man, who is completely incapable of understanding God.
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I think you are the one who does not understand free will.
 
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