Eric Holder: Suspending Miranda is now OKAY?

So, the constitution didn't apply to the Confederates, and we would have been fully justified in exterminating every one of those cockroaches.

A relatively quick study of American history shows the U.S. Army did not Mirandize captured Confederates, nor give them Constitutional rights. If they could have exterminated us all, they would have, it was a war. Once we departed from the USA and became the CSA, we did not expect to be provided US Constitutional rights, nor did any idiot of the time suggest such a thing.

As I said, our Founding Fathers big mistake was assuming there would never be idiots in large numbers, as they are today. They should have probably spent more time explaining the foundational reason and purpose of the Constitution, and the importance of protecting it at any and all costs against enemies foreign and domestic. Maybe they should have put big red letters at the top... This does not apply to those who seek to destroy us! ....did they have red ink back then? I'm not sure! Don't think they needed it, because we didn't have so many STUPID people, who required big bold RED letters to understand a simple common sense point!
 
A relatively quick study of American history shows the U.S. Army did not Mirandize captured Confederates, nor give them Constitutional rights. If they could have exterminated us all, they would have, it was a war. Once we departed from the USA and became the CSA, we did not expect to be provided US Constitutional rights, nor did any idiot of the time suggest such a thing.

As I said, our Founding Fathers big mistake was assuming there would never be idiots in large numbers, as they are today. They should have probably spent more time explaining the foundational reason and purpose of the Constitution, and the importance of protecting it at any and all costs against enemies foreign and domestic. Maybe they should have put big red letters at the top... This does not apply to those who seek to destroy us! ....did they have red ink back then? I'm not sure! Don't think they needed it, because we didn't have so many STUPID people, who required big bold RED letters to understand a simple common sense point!
Dixie the little shit is trolling you (sorry to bust up your fun Watermark! LOL).
 
What in the fuck are you even talking about? I'm no Janet Reno fan, but I must have missed her ordering tax dodger executions! Too bad they didn't start with Democrat politicians, there seems to be an abundance of tax dodgers there!

No, SmarterThanYou, I hate to inform you, but you are just plain wrong. You're a knee-jerk libertarian who wants to ride up on a high horse and pretend to carry the banner of liberty for the poor unfortunate masses, but you are an absolute moron and idiot. The reason the Constitution doesn't make the provision for suspending Miranda, is probably because the Constitution doesn't establish Miranda, it was passed into law by liberals and libertarian types like yourself, back in the 60s. The Founding Fathers probably never imagined there would be idiots like you, who didn't understand that the Constitution does not apply to people who are trying to destroy America.

um, no you stupified brain dead moron. if you missed reno ordering the deaths of 86 americans for not paying taxes, then maybe you weren't alive during the waco siege massacre, in which case you're not worth debating until you're a little less wet behind the ears.

never did I profess that miranda rights were part of the constitution, but as you are fond of declaring, since the USSC stated that miranda rights were mandatory, so they should be. so make up your damn mind, do the courts actually abide by the constitution, or do they make it up as they go along.

when you get a brain attached to that numbskull body of yours, let me know.
 
um, no you stupified brain dead moron. if you missed reno ordering the deaths of 86 americans for not paying taxes, then maybe you weren't alive during the waco siege massacre, in which case you're not worth debating until you're a little less wet behind the ears.

never did I profess that miranda rights were part of the constitution, but as you are fond of declaring, since the USSC stated that miranda rights were mandatory, so they should be. so make up your damn mind, do the courts actually abide by the constitution, or do they make it up as they go along.

when you get a brain attached to that numbskull body of yours, let me know.

See, this is where you totally fuck up.

A while back you complained about something and I said you were going to the extreme end, to make your point, and you disagreed.

Time for you to PUT UP or SHUT UP, by providing any fucking documentation that shows Reno ordering 86 people executed for not paying income tax.
By the way, I think Reno is an idiot.
 
See, this is where you totally fuck up.

A while back you complained about something and I said you were going to the extreme end, to make your point, and you disagreed.

Time for you to PUT UP or SHUT UP, by providing any fucking documentation that shows Reno ordering 86 people executed for not paying income tax.
By the way, I think Reno is an idiot.

lets get real specific. I did NOT say 'income tax', I said 'tax'. and if you are that daft to not understand that the raid on waco was initially about NOT paying taxes on weapons, then this debate is moot.
 
Koresh was involved in child rape. The final assault was a tragedy (a tragedy caused by the Davidians lighting fires on their on facility) but the issue is far more complex than simply not paying taxes.
 
A relatively quick study of American history shows the U.S. Army did not Mirandize captured Confederates, nor give them Constitutional rights. If they could have exterminated us all, they would have, it was a war. Once we departed from the USA and became the CSA, we did not expect to be provided US Constitutional rights, nor did any idiot of the time suggest such a thing.

As I said, our Founding Fathers big mistake was assuming there would never be idiots in large numbers, as they are today. They should have probably spent more time explaining the foundational reason and purpose of the Constitution, and the importance of protecting it at any and all costs against enemies foreign and domestic. Maybe they should have put big red letters at the top... This does not apply to those who seek to destroy us! ....did they have red ink back then? I'm not sure! Don't think they needed it, because we didn't have so many STUPID people, who required big bold RED letters to understand a simple common sense point!
There is a huge difference between POWs and people arrested in the U.S. by law enforcement. No, if a U.S. soldier captures a combatant, or even if a soldier captures a foreign national in a combat zone as a suspected combatant, then miranda rules do not apply. That is pretty much a given, and your Civil War example is exactly that" combatants under military conditions.

But the AG is talking about NOT paying attention to our rights when a person is ARRESTED by LAW ENFORCEMENT. No military involved, yet if they label you a terrorist, out go the rights. That is wrong, no matter what dough headed fuck up says it's OK.

The 14th Amendment SPECIFICALLY STATES that the rights of a U.S. person - that means ANY PERSON residing in the United States - cannot have their rights removed EXCEPT THROUGH DUE PROCESS.
nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

To declare a person a terrorist to whom Constitutional protections do not apply, the person has to either be captured under military conditions (ie: captured by military personnel as an enemy combatant or suspected enemy combatant in a military combat zone) OR, if arrested by law enforcement in the United States proper or associated territories, due process must be applied. But for due process to apply, the legal system has to arrest you, MIRANDIZE YOU because your rights are still intact until the due process procedure is over,, put you on trial, CONVICT YOU and SENTENCE YOU, with part of said sentence being the removal of your rights. Then and ONLY then can they DENY your rights and proceed to treat you as an enemy agent.

Anything less is pissing on the Constitution. It does not MATTER what "justification" you want to use. You piss on the Constitution, you will get urinated on yourself, eventually, as the "exceptions" are granted ever widened definitions. If the AG's policy is allowed to stand, all they have to do to remove ALL your Constitutional protections is declare you a suspected terrorist. They do not even have a defined policy for what it takes to SUSPECT a terrorist. Just say so, and you're a terrorist with no Constitution. Then they do whatever the fuck they want, and, if you're EXTREMELY LUCKY in the end, get released many years later with a "oops, guess you're not a terrorist after all".
 
Terrorism is a crime, not a country. You can't declare war on it anymore than you can declare war on robbery or murder.
Actually we have declared war on drugs, crime, and if memory serves me correctly, obesity. It's part of the American mindset that we always win wars (historically accurate [don't say Vietnam]), so therefore we can defeat a several millennia old concept. Of course this also requires the classic American short sightedness.
 
You'd think neocon parrots and pundits would be applauding Holder for his mental meanderings. But hey, it's under Obama, so it's a bad thing.

Bottom line: if Holder's mind fart becomes a reality he can look forward to being replaced after the 2012 elections along with Obama, because the people that put them in office won't stand for this.
 
Actually we have declared war on drugs, crime, and if memory serves me correctly, obesity. It's part of the American mindset that we always win wars (historically accurate [don't say Vietnam]), so therefore we can defeat a several millennia old concept. Of course this also requires the classic American short sightedness.

This "war on a concept" shit is insanity. You declare war on countries, not concepts that have always been with us and always will be with us.

The "war on terror" and "war on drugs" is more rhetoric than reality anyway. We don't treat drug crime suspects as POW's; we shouldn't treat terrorism suspects as POW's.
 
You'd think neocon parrots and pundits would be applauding Holder for his mental meanderings. But hey, it's under Obama, so it's a bad thing.

Bottom line: if Holder's mind fart becomes a reality he can look forward to being replaced after the 2012 elections along with Obama, because the people that put them in office won't stand for this.

Tachi, you as well as I know that we basically have the choice between voting for a Republican who will take Obama's precedents and run with it and Obama. We can vote in the primary, but Obama's going to win the goddamn primary. It's hopeless.

Obama has allowed the middle ground to shift too far to the right. It disgusts me. He's a goddamn Republican in Democratic clothing.
 
Tachi, you as well as I know that we basically have the choice between voting for a Republican who will take Obama's precedents and run with it and Obama. We can vote in the primary, but Obama's going to win the goddamn primary. It's hopeless.

Obama has allowed the middle ground to shift too far to the right. It disgusts me. He's a goddamn Republican in Democratic clothing.
Well there is a third option. You could, ya know, try and change the Republican party. It'll be Libertarian soon enough anyways, why not try and ride the inevitable wave of glory that will come with it?
 
Well there is a third option. You could, ya know, try and change the Republican party. It'll be Libertarian soon enough anyways, why not try and ride the inevitable wave of glory that will come with it?

The libertarians do not have a majority in the Republican party. There's little hope there.

I could say I'm strategically voting for Obama, but even if we had IRV I doubt a third party candidate good on civil liberties could make a credible threat. I am, at the end of things, faced with the cold fact that most Americans wildly support fascism.
 
The libertarians do not have a majority in the Republican party. There's little hope there.

I could say I'm strategically voting for Obama, but even if we had IRV I doubt a third party candidate good on civil liberties could make a credible threat. I am, at the end of things, faced with the cold fact that most Americans wildly support fascism.
You're work has not been in vain my friend. We shall be rewarded for our efforts. The Libertarians are indeed taking over the party. How much so we cannot yet say until the mid terms are over. Of course such a herculean effort requires every possible hand to help out.
 
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