Europeans see what America cannot

[Cancel 2016.2]

Again, I'm not the least bit interested in converting you to the truth. If you can't see your own nose, that's not my problem.
.

translation: "I have no proof. No evidence. So I will continue to act as if you are too ignorant to see the truth in a vain attempt to avoid having to say the words.... I have no proof."

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Again, I'm not the least bit interested in converting you to the truth. If you can't see your own nose, that's not my problem.

I'm posting what I percieve as truth and whether you agree doeasn't make a damn bit of difference .. as it didn't make a damn bit of difference listening to those who championed the disaster of Iraq and were too incerdibly dumb to see the all too obvious there as well.

If I remember correctly, they called the opposition "conspiracy theorists" as well. It appears that anyone who reaches for that bullshit lacks intellect themselves.

Show me a quote where someone said that people opposed to Iraq were "conspiracy theorists".

 

[blackascoal]

translation: "I have no proof. No evidence. So I will continue to act as if you are too ignorant to see the truth in a vain attempt to avoid having to say the words.... I have no proof."

No, those were the words you should have been saying about Iraq .. but somehow, I don't believe you did.

My words are .. you have no ability to see your own nose.

You're on the right dude. .. What the fuck do you know?

America should be listening to you and your bumbling blind commrades ????

There is a very good reason why conservatives are shrinking.

 

[Topspin]

there is but if ignorant on business fools like you show up in the dems side you'll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. AGAIN!!!

 

[blackascoal]

Show me a quote where someone said that people opposed to Iraq were "conspiracy theorists".

Surely this is comic relief from our discussion.

Those who opposed the Iraq war were not only called "conspiracy theorists, but also "unpatriotic", "looniy", "unamnerican" .. and a litany of other right-wing knuckledragger ignorance from hell.

Are you suggesting the attack on Iraq was justified?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I'm still waiting on one of you to tell me why, if the pipeline wasn't needed and there were other routes .. why did it get built NOT using other routes?

I question if you even know the history.

From the 1998 Congressional Record.

STATEMENT OF JOHN J. MARESCA, VICE PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, UNOCAL CORPORATION



Project for a New American Century Letter to President Clinton


Letter to President Clinton on Iraq

According to PNAC, what was needed to build the pipeline and invade Iraq was “some catastrophic and catalysing event – like a new Pearl Harbor"
Why Another Defense Review

Hell to Pay
Sentient Times June/July 2002 issue



US Invasion of Afghanistan was announced months before 9/11
The US Invasion of Afghanistan was Announced Months Before the 9/11 Attacks

QUESTION: At this point, before 9/11 .. WHAT REASON DO THEY HAVE TO ATTACK AFGHANISTAN?

Bush given Afghanistan invasion plans two days before 9/11
US PREPARING FOR A WAR WITH AFGHANISTAN BEFORE 9/11, INCREASING CONTROL OF ASIA BEFORE AND SINCE



October 7, 2001, Bush announces opening of attacks against Afghanistan
CNN.com - Bush announces opening of attacks - October 7, 2001

Former Unocal Consultant Karzai elected new Afghan leader
BBC NEWS * World * South Asia * Karzai elected Afghan leader

John J. Maresca, the Vice President of the Unocal Corporation who had implored Congress to have the Taliban overthrown is installed as the first US Envoy to Afghanistan

September 20, 2001: PNAC Think Tank Pushes for Iraq War

Letter to President Bush on the War on Terrorism

December 27, 2002, Afghanistan pipeline deal signed
BBC NEWS * South Asia * Central Asia pipeline deal signed

1) The letter from PNAC to Clinton did not say we needed another Pearl Harbor

2) If that 90 page document says that, please reference which page

3) The "invasion" of Afghanistan was not the US. It was the UN with Russia and Iran also on board, along with India and Pakistan in an effort to keep the Taliban from extending their control over more of Afghanistan. It was a plan to maintain the 1998 areas of control. As referenced on that site of yours. It was not a plan to remove the Taliban.

4) The October announcement by Bush is relevant HOW??? After 9/11 Bush and the UN forces announced that Al Queda camps and Taliban strongholds were being hit? Wow, big shock there. Again... not about oil as you claim. Because again.... AFGHANISTAN does not have oil.

5) Karzai was elected. Ok... no real conspiracy there. He received overwhelming support from the Afghan people.

6) Then someone Karzai is familiar with gets appointed as a the US Envoy. Big shock..... someone the President if familiar with. Imagine that.

7) Pipeline deal that everyone wanted gets done. another collassal shock given that the President of Afghanistan wanted it done as did the two neighbors of Afghanistan... Turkmenistan and Pakistan.

8) Even the Taliban saw the benefits of the pipeline.... they just refused to go along with it after Clowntoon bombed al Queda.

 

[blackascoal]

1) The letter from PNAC to Clinton did not say we needed another Pearl Harbor

2) If that 90 page document says that, please reference which page

3) The "invasion" of Afghanistan was not the US. It was the UN with Russia and Iran also on board, along with India and Pakistan in an effort to keep the Taliban from extending their control over more of Afghanistan. It was a plan to maintain the 1998 areas of control. As referenced on that site of yours. It was not a plan to remove the Taliban.

4) The October announcement by Bush is relevant HOW??? After 9/11 Bush and the UN forces announced that Al Queda camps and Taliban strongholds were being hit? Wow, big shock there. Again... not about oil as you claim. Because again.... AFGHANISTAN does not have oil.

5) Karzai was elected. Ok... no real conspiracy there. He received overwhelming support from the Afghan people.

6) Then someone Karzai is familiar with gets appointed as a the US Envoy. Big shock..... someone the President if familiar with. Imagine that.

7) Pipeline deal that everyone wanted gets done. another collassal shock given that the President of Afghanistan wanted it done as did the two neighbors of Afghanistan... Turkmenistan and Pakistan.

8) Even the Taliban saw the benefits of the pipeline.... they just refused to go along with it after Clowntoon bombed al Queda.

Dude .. if you need proof that PNAC clamored for a New Pearl Harbor .. you're not really up to speed to even be having this conversation .. in my opinion.

Let's agree to disagree as I am a firm believer in the adage, "you can lead a horse to water ..."

Too much exciting Obama news to get into.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

"No, those were the words you should have been saying about Iraq .. but somehow, I don't believe you did."

Translation: I am going to change the subject to Iraq so that I can attempt to shift the conversation from my lack of evidence to calling you a war monger or something like that.

"My words are .. you have no ability to see your own nose."

Translation: I hope that if I say this enough times my left wing friends will come and bail me out with a "SF got owned" comment or something to divert attention from the fact that I am still refusing to show any evidence of my position because, well, I don't have any and I don't want anyone to know because that would put a damper on my constant posting of crap like this.

"You're on the right dude. .. What the fuck do you know?"

Translation: If my first attempt to draw other lefties into this doesn't work, surely calling you rightwing will do the trick. It also gives me the ability to proclaim "what do you know!!!". How could anyone see through this charade and vain attempt to hide how embarrassed I am that I cannot support my position? I am a genius.

"America should be listening to you and your bumbling blind commrades ????"

Translation: Man I am getting really desperate now. Please stop asking me to show evidence of my position. Please. Please stop. I don't have any and I don't want to admit it.

There is a very good reason why conservatives are shrinking.

ROFLMAO.... are you about done now?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Dude .. if you need proof that PNAC clamored for a New Pearl Harbor .. you're not really up to speed to even be having this conversation .. in my opinion.

Let's agree to disagree as I am a firm believer in the adage, "you can lead a horse to water ..."

Too much exciting Obama news to get into.

Translation: How dare you continue to ask me to show evidence of my position. PNAC "clamored" for a new pearl harbor... because I said so. I am now going to pretend that we simply agree to disagree because that way I can act like you were too ignorant to understand and my fellow lefties will worship me.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Surely this is comic relief from our discussion.

Those who opposed the Iraq war were not only called "conspiracy theorists, but also "unpatriotic", "looniy", "unamnerican" .. and a litany of other right-wing knuckledragger ignorance from hell.

Are you suggesting the attack on Iraq was justified?

Translation: There you go again asking me to show evidence to back my assertation. Time for me to change topics again... oh I know.... lets go back to if Iraq was justified.

 

[blackascoal]

Translation: There you go again asking me to show evidence to back my assertation. Time for me to change topics again... oh I know.... lets go back to if Iraq was justified.

NOPE .. it's a recognition that you aren't looking for answers and that you're entrenched in what you believe.

I'm cool with that.

No Iraq was not justified, nor was the attack on Afghanistan. What did that produce?

Did we get "those responsible for 9/11?"

There were no Iraqis attacking us on 9/11 and most of the hijackers were from Saudia Arabia.

Now the US is in the position of having to beg France and other nations to help out in Afghanistan. .. Was that the plan?

The Taliban is strong and the opium crop is at record highs.

We've been stuck in a stone-age nation using muckets and sling-shots to fight against us .. and we aren't even close to "winning" .. whatever that may be.

Was that the plan?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

NOPE .. it's a recognition that you aren't looking for answers and that you're entrenched in what you believe.
I'm cool with that.

No Iraq was not justified, nor was the attack on Afghanistan. What did that produce?

Did we get "those responsible for 9/11?"

There were no Iraqis attacking us on 9/11 and most of the hijackers were from Saudia Arabia.

Now the US is in the position of having to beg France and other nations to help out in Afghanistan. .. Was that the plan?

The Taliban is strong and the opium crop is at record highs.

We've been stuck in a stone-age nation using muckets and sling-shots to fight against us .. and we aren't even close to "winning" .. whatever that may be.

Was that the plan?

ROFLMAO.... take a look at the bolded part above. Just how stupid do you think people are????? I am SPECIFICALLY asking you to provide the answers. YOU are refusing to do so and then acting like I am the one entrenched in my beliefs????

I will try to make this very clear for you....

SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE YOU SAY IS SO PLAIN THAT ANYONE CAN SEE.

I WANT TO LEARN WHY YOU BELIEVE IT IS SO CUT AND DRY.

Quit friggin ducking the responsibility to provide evidence to your assertation.

 

[blackascoal]

ROFLMAO.... take a look at the bolded part above. Just how stupid do you think people are????? I am SPECIFICALLY asking you to provide the answers. YOU are refusing to do so and then acting like I am the one entrenched in my beliefs????

I will try to make this very clear for you....

SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE YOU SAY IS SO PLAIN THAT ANYONE CAN SEE.

I WANT TO LEARN WHY YOU BELIEVE IT IS SO CUT AND DRY.

Quit friggin ducking the responsibility to provide evidence to your assertation.

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR .. I'VE SHOWN YOU THE EVIDENCE.

I don't care if you don't see it.

You have excuses, not answers to what I posted.

I also don't care if you still believe Saddam has WMD.

I've asked repeatedly .. if the fucking pipeline could have gone another route .. why didn't it?

I know .. happenstance that we attacked Afghanistan at the same time we wanted to build a pipeline.

Point here is the world doesn't believe this bullshit .. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY THE US IS BEGGING FOR HELP THERE.

You can believe what you want.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR .. I'VE SHOWN YOU THE EVIDENCE.

I don't care if you don't see it.

You have excuses, not answers to what I posted.

I also don't care if you still believe Saddam has WMD.

I've asked repeatedly .. if the fucking pipeline could have gone another route .. why didn't it?

I know .. happenstance that we attacked Afghanistan at the same time we wanted to build a pipeline.

Point here is the world doesn't believe this bullshit .. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY THE US IS BEGGING FOR HELP THERE.

You can believe what you want.

I have explained the pipeline route to you multiple times.

Let me explain this to you so you can understand it. Try to pay attention this time.

1) The pipeline only has ONE FRIGGING ROUTE..... IT HAS TO GO THROUGH AFGHANISTAN. Look on a map. The most direct route from the NATURAL GAS fields in southeast Turkmenistan to Pakistan is to go THROUGH Afghanistan.

2) NOTE: THE CASPIAN OIL FIELDS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PIPELINES IN AFGHANISTAN..... NOTHING

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Now... did you comprehend it that time or do I need to explain it to you again?

Maybe if we keep the various conspiracies seperate you will begin to comprehend....

To the next point...

Prior to 9/11, many countries (including the US, Russia, Pakistan, India, Iran) wanted the Taliban kept in check. They were willing to have Russia and the US ensure that the Taliban expanded no further. They wanted to make sure that they did not extend beyond the 1998 areas under their control. This had nothing to do with the damn pipeline.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Next point.

The proposed expansion of pipelines for the Caspian oil fields.

This proposal has NOTHING TO DO WITH AFGHANISTAN. Nothing.

The proposed additions were from Azerbaijan.... through Georgia to the Black Sea ports. Then expanding the Turkish pipeline North from Ankara to transport the oil from there south through Turkey to the Med Sea. The reason for this proposal is at the time the only routes were through Russia and Iran. For obvious reasons, many countries wanted another option.

 

[Litmus]

Oh no. Not stasis. We all must be filled with an all consuming greed for lust and power, that's what progress is. How dare they settle for stasis! Ungrateful p.o.s.es they must be terrists.

 

[Socrtease]

Just an fyi.... Afghanistan does not produce oil.

And I would add that Afghanistan is a legitimate area of operation for this war. It is where those responsible for 9-11 are headquartered. If we had just fought the war there I would sound much different in my view of the war.

 

[Cancel5]

And I would add that Afghanistan is a legitimate area of operation for this war. It is where those responsible for 9-11 are headquartered. If we had just fought the war there I would sound much different in my view of the war.

Afghanistan offers a route for a pipeline, though, if I remember my reading.

 

[uscitizen]

Afghanistan offers a route for a pipeline, though, if I remember my reading.

you remember correctly.

I forget whether gas or oil, but petro energy.

And SF not they do not produce oil but have record poppy crops since we moved in.