Explaining women in combat arms

A female goes to nursing school.
She passes nursing school and becomes a nurse.
A male goes to medical school.
He passes medical school and becomes a surgeon.

Two totally seperate jobs with different training requirements and responsibilities to the lives of patients.

Nurse works with Surgeon during surgery for 6 months.

Darla proclaims nurse is surgeon.. afterall, the nurse has been working along side the surgeon for 6 months.

World calls Darla fucking dumbass... just because the nurse has been working along side the surgeon for 6 months doesnt make her a surgeon..

Darla says its just semantics.

lol
 
Wait. Are we speaking about women in combat or in a domestic situation? Assuming none of you would be silly enough to equate women (or men) in a combat situation using their hands to engage an opponent, I assumed you were speaking about a domestic situation.

In that regard, should you hit your wife? Still, no. Shield yourself, protect yourself, get away from her...If you're being attacked by a crazed robber? Of course, there's different rules. I just don't see that happening a lot...

Point is, I've never heard of a story of a woman beating her husband to death with her bare hands, so it's pretty rare. I'm confident there are, however, news accounts of men beating their wifes to death with their bare hands.





The Stand Your Ground Law here in Florida is on it's way out. The most recent case of it, used by a woman, was denied. Why? Because she was being abused by her husband. The Fl SYG law, in an incredible display of lack of compassion for women, exempts those situations.

We were talking about domestic. I agreed with you that a man shouldn't hit a woman but then I gave a couple of exceptions (which while rare do and have occurred) and you responded a man should NEVER hit a woman. Unfortunately if you watch some of those women in prison shows there are woman who have robbed and killed people (including men). If your NEVER means you were a victim to one of those women and you wouldn't defend youself in one of those situations... well that's on you.

I'm a 40 year old man. I've never been in a fight in my life. So hitting people isn't really on the top of my list of things I think about at most times. But I've seen enough to know I'm not going to state I would NEVER hit a woman if it means I'm going to, or might, die as a result.
 
"Neither of you have any interest in listening to the women who are in Afghanistan and Iraq and are fighting there every week, next to men who are gaining career benefits for doing the same exact thing the women are doing and not getting those same benefits. Since one of the biggest benefits is promotions, this policy has the afffect of keeping military management dominated by men. "

so we know that there are no female infantryman because that job has been restricted. no female artilleryman because that job has been restricted. no female tankers because that job has been restricted.

how can women be doing the exact same job that men have? The whole issue is that they havent been allowed to do the exact same job? In fact this entire policy is to open up these MOS's to women who have never had or been able to do the job.

And yet, this fucking retard keeps saying and praising imaginary women and proclaiming that women are doing the exact same things as men.

i guess its just at the laughable stage. lol


Here's an 11-minute segment that was on NPR this morning. These people have been in combat and don't share your opinion. And I don't believe their opinions have less value than yours.

Ending Combat Ban More Change in Thinking than in Reality
 
So there are female infantry? There are females that have gone through the infantry courses and are working beside the infantry as infantryman... they are just being called something else?

hhmmm.... I wonder... Do you consider it semantics if a woman is called a Nurse, even though she works beside a surgeon who is a male.. I mean.. why is she called a nurse, shouldnt she be called a surgeon?

Semantics right? lol

I just lucked out today, didn't I. First the NPR program, then a long article in the paper.

Modern warfare brought women to the front


Note these paragraphs, which pretty much sum up what's wrong with certain military policy:

"In the long-running debate over whether women should serve in combat, a 2005 incident in Iraq stands out. A male staff sergeant, his supply convoy unit under fire, asked for backup. A female soldier, getting there before her male counterparts, launched a grenade. Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester earned the Silver Star for her valor in combat -- launching an argument in military circles over whether she was even eligible...

...
Sgt. Hester beat her fellow soldier to the front and began launching grenades before picking up her rifle. Twenty-seven insurgents died, six were wounded and one was captured in the fight....

...Her Silver Star honor created controversy in some conservative military circles, where people argued that women were not officially allowed to work in combat roles and thus shouldn't be eligible for the award...

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ught-women-to-the-front-672208/#ixzz2JClHCFOL


And you want us to respect this twisted thinking?



 
If that is how you feel then shut the fuck up, leave me alone and I will do the same. So what is my great crime? To express doubts that women are physically capable of passing the tests, without them being diluted, that are demanded to be in a frontline infantry unit. There is actually only one person on here who has practical experience of what it takes and his testimony is totally dismissed as being that of a sexist and a liar. What exactly is your experience anyway? The nearest you will ever get to combat is shooting a few babies to protect the second amendment.


Just as standards were lowered for women and in many cases, minorities for police and firefighters, you can bet you your ass they will be changed in the
military so that some percentage of women will qualify ...... its reality and as Poet told us, "If its the truth, it ain't racism".....or 'sexism" and any other
kind of "ism"

That doesn't mean that they won't be a valuable asset in the many difficult, demanding, and technical jobs that are available to them throughout these chosen fields.....
you don't have to be macho man or woman to be intelligent and have a useful talent,....... strength, agility and endurance isn't the be all and end all for having a place in
the military......their are many jobs that are more valuable than being a beefed up grunt, and you don't have to be a grunt to serve in a combat roll.....
 
Last edited:
I just lucked out today, didn't I. First the NPR program, then a long article in the paper.

Modern warfare brought women to the front


Note these paragraphs, which pretty much sum up what's wrong with certain military policy:

"In the long-running debate over whether women should serve in combat, a 2005 incident in Iraq stands out. A male staff sergeant, his supply convoy unit under fire, asked for backup. A female soldier, getting there before her male counterparts, launched a grenade. Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester earned the Silver Star for her valor in combat -- launching an argument in military circles over whether she was even eligible...

...
Sgt. Hester beat her fellow soldier to the front and began launching grenades before picking up her rifle. Twenty-seven insurgents died, six were wounded and one was captured in the fight....

...Her Silver Star honor created controversy in some conservative military circles, where people argued that women were not officially allowed to work in combat roles and thus shouldn't be eligible for the award...

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ught-women-to-the-front-672208/#ixzz2JClHCFOL


And you want us to respect this twisted thinking?




Great piece, great post.
 
You're a fucking moron. An actual retard. And on top of that, most likely, too drunk to discern anything. You and your sidekick the titmouse have been making these moronic claims that I have a "posse" and that Grind does whatever I tell him. I was laughing so hard when I read you two idiots fantasizing over how Grind didn't ban Howey, when YOU demanded it, because I told him not to. Meanwhile I never saw the post, never heard of the post, until you and Yurt got into yet another of your endless whinefests.

In my post I was mocking you two morons.

You are so fucking stupid and you have the nerve to claim you have a background in science, whatever that means. Must mean you got a fischer price chemistry set when you were five, mixed some shit up, and your mommy told you you were a genius. A great disservice was done there. To you.

Moron.

Darla----->
butt-kisser-smiley.gif
<----Grind​
 
Just as standards were lowered for women and in many cases, minorities for police and firefighters, you can bet you your ass they will be changed in the
military so that some percentage of women will qualify ...... its reality and as Poet told us, "If its the truth, it ain't racism".....or 'sexism" and any other
kind of "ism"

That doesn't mean that they won't be a valuable asset in the many difficult, demanding, and technical jobs that are available to them throughout these chosen fields.....
you don't have to be macho man or woman to be intelligent and have a useful talent,....... strength, agility and endurance isn't the be all and end all for having a place in
the military......their are many jobs that are more valuable than being a beefed up grunt, and you don't have to be a grunt to serve in a combat roll.....

Here's height and weight standards for Marines. I suppose you're going to tell me a 4'10" man weighing 91# would be great at dragging his wounded companion off the field, because after all he's a manly man, not a wimpy woman.

Below are the Marine Corps' height and weight allowances for recruits to enlist.

Men
Height
(inches) Min Weight
(pounds) Max Weight
(pounds)

58 91 132
59 94 136
60 97 141
61 100 146
62 104 150
63 107 155
64 110 160
65 114 165
66 117 170
67 121 176
68 125 181
69 128 186
70 132 192
71 136 197
72 140 203
73 144 208
74 148 214
75 152 220
76 156 226
77 160 236
78 164 238
79 168 244
80 173 250
Max Body Fat %: 18%

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/marine-corps-weight-rules.html
 
You know Howey, you can be pretty fucking patronising as well as incredibly opinionated. I called you out before on your posting graphic images of men giving BJs to other men. You were given a pass by the powers that be and the women on here, fuck knows why. I am not sure what -ism that trangesses as there are so fucking many these days but it was certainly nasty, tasteless and incredibly disgusting so take your faux anger and shove it up your arse.

I really do not know what your purpose is being here anyway, if it is to drum up custom for your dying board then I can only say that I for one won't be posting over there if the likes of Bijou are typical posters. You can call me all the names that you like, I have been called virtually everything over the years, by left and right, but very few call me stupid and uneducated. As for other Brits, I have heard that one before as well. It was said by a right wing female poster called usloyaltotheend who accused me of being too politically correct, anti-American and not like all her other Brit friends.

Sorry tom, but you must be kidding to compare Loyalintherearend to Howie in (well pretty much) any way.
 
I just lucked out today, didn't I. First the NPR program, then a long article in the paper.

Modern warfare brought women to the front


Note these paragraphs, which pretty much sum up what's wrong with certain military policy:

"In the long-running debate over whether women should serve in combat, a 2005 incident in Iraq stands out. A male staff sergeant, his supply convoy unit under fire, asked for backup. A female soldier, getting there before her male counterparts, launched a grenade. Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester earned the Silver Star for her valor in combat -- launching an argument in military circles over whether she was even eligible...

...
Sgt. Hester beat her fellow soldier to the front and began launching grenades before picking up her rifle. Twenty-seven insurgents died, six were wounded and one was captured in the fight....

...Her Silver Star honor created controversy in some conservative military circles, where people argued that women were not officially allowed to work in combat roles and thus shouldn't be eligible for the award...

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ught-women-to-the-front-672208/#ixzz2JClHCFOL


And you want us to respect this twisted thinking?




Great article and shows that women can do just about anything the men can do.....just about.
That female soldier certainly earned her medal and should make us all proud ......

That crack about "controversy in some conservative military circles"
kind of pissed me off.....adding the adjective "conservative" adds nothing to the statement and smacks of bias and propaganda.....
That statement tells the same thing without using the word conservative.....

and all it says is that some in the military questioned the regulations and requirements, and what they say and mean about who is technically eligible for combat duty.....

You certainly DON'T have to be politically conservative to question what the regulations technically mean and how they affect the soldiers that serve....
Questioning those rules and regs just be the best way to effect change in updating those regs.....
 
Great article and shows that women can do just about anything the men can do.....just about.
That female soldier certainly earned her medal and should make us all proud ......

That crack about "controversy in some conservative military circles"
kind of pissed me off.....adding the adjective "conservative" adds nothing to the statement and smacks of bias and propaganda.....
That statement tells the same thing without using the word conservative.....

and all it says is that some in the military questioned the regulations and requirements, and what they say and mean about who is technically eligible for combat duty.....

You certainly DON'T have to be politically conservative to question what the regulations technically mean and how they affect the soldiers that serve....
Questioning those rules and regs just be the best way to effect change in updating those regs.....

That "crack" was inserted by the writer of the article, not me. But it fits. How could anybody deny this woman her award over the petty parsing about combat?
 
Sorry tom, but you must be kidding to compare Loyalintherearend to Howie in (well pretty much) any way.

I never saw the images, I have Tom on ignore because he has become a Drama Queen. I don't read the back and forth posts and I avoid the threads where they are going on.

I can't comment on something I know nothing about till now.

I would tell everyone that this is not a porn site.

I just wanted to set the record straight on why I haven't commented.
 
Here's an 11-minute segment that was on NPR this morning. These people have been in combat and don't share your opinion. And I don't believe their opinions have less value than yours.

Ending Combat Ban More Change in Thinking than in Reality

Everything mentioned in that interview speaks to my concern as being valid.

Most of the interview is conjecture on what the individual being interviewed might think, the rest dodged the real questions and concerns without explanation. The details and institutional procedures are where the risks and dangers are born, and on the battlefield is where they become proven.

The General was asked what her concerns were about opening up infantry to females were. Her immediate response was the physical concerns. She was asked what changed her mind just in the past few years of why these combat jobs of infantry and armor COULD be done by females. Her answer as not to explain how in the world her concerns about the physical capability have been addressed, it was just to say that her concerns have now changed BECAUSE the positions are now open. This is illogical and dodged the question fully.

When asked about the standards, she said that the standards would be changed, but that wouldnt mean they would be lowered in order to jive with what the Chairman had said in his interview (and of which i posted), that the standards needed to be studied to determine if modification was necessary. When asked if that was in a sense lowering the standards, through her excitement she waffled again and just said that standards would change... with no explanation.

The medic in his part of the interview talked about FET teams. (Female Engagement Teams). I guess I should explain to you what they are and why they exist. The islamic culture as you know has many restrictions of the ability of women, married or not, in communicating with males. Just as example, while we were outside the wire, if we looked at or communicated directly with a female, SHE could be punished by her husband or father. The only solution was to imbed females with the infantry unit so that they could communicate or "engage" with indigenous women. They could address medical concerns, they could talk about what the women of those villages needed.

The females tasked with being on the teams came from every MOS's specialty. They may have been admin, comm, supply, etc.. it didnt matter. They did receive special training, but that training concerned cultural training and some basic ROE training. The FET's purpose was not for combat related missions. They have and had no type of infantry combat training. They would be "taken" in by an infantry squad providing security for them as long as the area had been deemed safe. They would not be doing any infantry related responsibilities... that was for the infantryman to do, as they had been trained in HOW TO DO THAT.

Its the exact same as having a reporter embedded with an infantry unit. The reporter is there... with the infantry.. but just because they are there does not mean they are now infantryman.

The mission of the FET team inside the village would be accomplished, they may offer to do medical services for the women, talk about the current quality of life, ask about their children and what they may need, and then the unit would leave.

Dont get me wrong, this mission was and is vital. Having communicative abilities with the females in any location is necessary. Providing female medical attention is necessary to our counter insurgency doctrine. This service by these females was and is important. There is no doubt. However, if the village was ambushed and/or a fire fight has broken out, these females in uniform would be the responsibility of the infantry unit and its assets to get to safety. Their responsibility would not be a sector of fire in the operations of any squad or company movement. They would have had no idea of how to make that work, not because they are females, but because they had not undergone months and months of infantry training.

Nothing that I just said was in conflict with anything that was said in the NPR interview. All i did was give you the actual details of the mission and the detailed role of the individuals involved.

This is not complicated to understand. Were and are there women with these line units in the field undertaking missions? Yes, and both my comments and those in the interview are in perfect harmony with that reality.
Does this mean that those women were doing the same job as their male counterparts? No, and both my comments and those in the interview are still in perfect harmony.
Is the training the same for both the women and the men in order to accomplish this mission? No, and yet still, this does not cause any contradictions in what I have said, nor those in the interview.

As i have mentioned several times, the situational reality is not a qualifier for an institutional policy implementation.

The question that should have been asked to the female General is this:
Do you think females can integrate into the infantry in sufficient numbers without dropping the current physical standards?

The answer to this is suggested to be no, not only by the General but also by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs... and the only reason why it is suggested to be no is because there was a lot of attention paid to modifying the standards. What i heard the female General say was that she was not in support of keeping the standards, only because she never thought that females would be allowed to try. Now that they are, she is in support of "changing them". My inference from these comments is that she understands that with current standards success is not going to come... it will be necessary to lower those standards so that females will be able to qualify and sustain holding billets for career advancement.

That to me is a problem. It really should be a concern to you as well. It most likely is not because you dont have any appreciation for what it takes and consequences of lowering those standards.
 
Here's height and weight standards for Marines. I suppose you're going to tell me a 4'10" man weighing 91# would be great at dragging his wounded companion off the field, because after all he's a manly man, not a wimpy woman.

Below are the Marine Corps' height and weight allowances for recruits to enlist.

Men
Height
(inches) Min Weight
(pounds) Max Weight
(pounds)

58 91 132
59 94 136
60 97 141
61 100 146
62 104 150
63 107 155
64 110 160
65 114 165
66 117 170
67 121 176
68 125 181
69 128 186
70 132 192
71 136 197
72 140 203
73 144 208
74 148 214
75 152 220
76 156 226
77 160 236
78 164 238
79 168 244
80 173 250
Max Body Fat %: 18%

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/marine-corps-weight-rules.html

strawman bullshit as usual.....there are a lot of 4' 10" men that have more strength and agility than that 6' 2" , six-pack, movie idol you chicks swoon over....

Your post is no more relevant than saying an ugly man would do some job differently than a handsome one....or women for that matter.

And lastly, requirements to enlist are irrelivant ..... enlisting doesn not mean you've made the grade any more than enrolling in college means you will earn a degree.
 
Transgendered people are already serving and still forced to stay in the closet. The Silent Soldiers Who Are Still ‘Unfit to Serve’

I just find the military attitudes about sexual orientation are abhorrent. I don't know where else so many people can be freely discriminated against and not held accountable. We managed to move away from segregating and didn't have any repercussions from doing so. Anybody who volunteers for our military knows he/she might have to give their life in battle. So we let these people fight and die for the country but frown on their color or gender? We'll allow them to die but not promote them fairly because of some arbitrary standard?

You know I have two sons and if they wanted to enlist I'd support them no matter what. But I actively prevented recruiters from contacting them in school (yes, parents were allowed to do that). I don't trust Obama any more than I did bush about entering into some foreign conflict where Americans can get killed. So you're right that I want equality but don't want anyone deployed. IMO there hasn't been a conflict since WWII that I think is worth a single life.

:hand:
 
You haven't given one single, rational argument to justify your discrimination. Fortunately, there are people higher up in the food chain than you who are slowly changing an outdated system to reflect reality. For example:

"If the United States had previously allowed women to serve officially in military combat roles, including special operations forces, there might be fewer sexual assaults in the armed services, the Pentagon's top general told reporters Thursday.

Having studied the issue of rampant sexual misconduct in the ranks, Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, noted that he has concluded that the phenomenon exists partly because women have been subordinated to men in military culture: "
It's because we've had separate classes of military personnel."

At the end of the day you're just another ultra-conservative hack who's worried sick that the old order of alpha male supremacy is going away. And good riddance to that.

That does nothing to explain the rape problem in the rest of our society. I am not buying the General's dogma. The real issue IMHO is that of coverup and lack of veiwing rape as a violent crime against women.
 
That "crack" was inserted by the writer of the article, not me. But it fits. How could anybody deny this woman her award over the petty parsing about combat?


No Sweetie, It doesn't FIT....its mis-leading and shows a spin to imply something about "conservatives' that isn't fair....

"Her Silver Star honor created controversy in some conservative military circles, where people argued that women were not officially allowed to work in combat roles and thus shouldn't be eligible for the award..."


"people argued that women were not officially allowed to work in combat roles and thus shouldn't be eligible for the award..."

THIS is an obvious reference to the rules and regulations that govern who are OFFICIALLY in combat roles and THUS ARE ELIGIBLE for these awards....

And who tf is this 'writer' to conclude they a conservatives in the first place..... its bullshit bias, plain and simple....

I'm certainly conservative and have no problem with this female soldier getting this medal....she earned if fair and square......

That doesn't mean I or some liberal still couldn't question the regulations as they are written if they say she shouldn't be eligible....if that is the case, change the regs.
 
Back
Top