Federal troops kill a man because he carried a concealed gun.

[T. A. Gardner]

Open carry is legal in Minnesota, unlike other states that allow you to get a conceal carry license, Minnesota doesn't differentiate between the two different statuses. If you have a permit to carry concealed you also have a permit to carry openly.

And that has ZERO to do with the situation here. Pretti was interacting with law enforcement. Having a gun on you raises your threat level to the officers present. You have to consider that this was an "adversarial situation." The officers weren't having a friendly chat with Pretti.

The legality of his carry isn't in question, at least from me. He could do so. Where things go south, so-to-speak, is when Pretti begins to directly interact with the ICE officers who clearly are going to arrest him. At that point his having a firearm became a huge liability that he clearly didn't recognize. His resisting arrest was a HUGE mistake.

If instead, Pretti simply followed the officer's instructions, offered no resistance, he'd still be alive today. It's that simple.

 

[evince]

He has a right to openly carry, it does not matter how many magazines he had. Seriously, you cannot argue a right to carry on one thread and then suddenly say that because he had some magazines with him he must have been a threat. There is zero opportunity for the Agents to even know how many magazines he had with him and would not be part of any review to see if it was justified.

Things that can make it "justified" will be measured on what a reasonable law enforcement officer at the time might have thought and will never be based on how many magazines he had with him. No law enforcement officer would have had that information until after the fact.

Factors that will matter in this case:
• A physical struggle in a volatile, crowded environment, which increases the risk of sudden escalation
• A perceived firearm during that struggle, which courts generally treat as an immediate deadly force threat
• The possibility that officers believed the individual was attempting to access or retain a weapon
• Reliance on warnings or reactions from fellow officers, such as hearing another officer shout that a gun was present
• The absence of a legal duty for police to retreat, unlike civilians in some states

Just saying that because police saw a gun on him they were justified is absurd. He has a right to own and bear arms, we all do, but he even had a "permit" to do so.

I was right yet again huh Damo


I told you this is where the Republicans were taking us

Remember all my protestations of Republicans insisting America is not a Democracy and what it was aimed at

Here we are

I await your apologies

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Okay, I've watched this thing and here's what I see.
He starts struggling with the popo, one immediately strips his gun, which was chambered, the motion made it go off,
this guy goes for his gun that isn't there; Gun! Gets called and they put him down like they were trained to do.
The dude had a round already racked in a gun that's known to go off when dropped and carrying it around with 2 spare magazines.
.

It could be something along those lines. The bottom line is Pretti had a pistol on him. All the officers present knew that. Pretti fucked up big time by resisting arrest. At some point at least one of the officers got the impression Pretti was going for the pistol and shot him. In that split second one mistake by Pretti, one mistake by one of the officers, one mistake by both, got Pretti shot and killed.

Pretti set that scenario up when he resisted arrest. He was an idiot getting involved like he did.

 

[Damocles]

You shouldn’t be shot for being stupid.

I respect someone not cowardly concealing his weapon. It’s much more honest than hiding.

It depends on how you show you are stupid. I pull the gun and point it at them while shouting "here you go pigs!"... will that get me shot? Will they know I was handing it over?

Openly carrying a gun then participating in an interaction with police where you struggle and fight them can lead to this kind of thing. Did another cop shout "he has a gun!"? This is something that will be considered... I have yet to watch any video on this one. I want to stay outside and ask questions first. I like to wait for information and gather what I can before I watch video presented by either side whenever I can. And on this one I didn't see some story on the news or something with the video... So, until I have seen it all my opinions are based on the law and questions that will help me find "what a reasonable law enforcement officer might perceive" at that moment.

 

[LurchAddams]

Cults do that to the human brain

With Terry, in particular I think it's more, "You wanted me to be nice to different races and accept trans people? Take THIS you safe space mother fuckers!"

Terry cares more about revenge and hate than the good of our union.

You're right it's a cult as well!

 

[Jake Starkey]

The gun was taken first THEN Pretti was shot and murdered.

The video is absolutely clear on these points.

 

[evince]

It depends on how you show you are stupid. I pull the gun and point it at them while shouting "here you go pigs!"... will that get me shot? Will they know I was handing it over?

Openly carrying a gun then participating in an interaction with police where you struggle and fight them can lead to this kind of thing. Did another cop shout "he has a gun!"? This is something that will be considered... I have yet to watch any video on this one. I want to stay outside and ask questions first. I like to wait for information and gather what I can before I watch video presented by either side whenever I can. And on this one I didn't see some story on the news or something with the video... So, until I have seen it all my opinions are based on the law and questions that will help me find "what a reasonable law enforcement officer might perceive" at that moment.

Who exactly is supposed to be the fully trained element in an interaction such as this case?

Police don’t require that citizens are more informed on proceedures than them

To take that tact only results in dead citizens

And the American laws take such things into consideration

So do judges

 

[LurchAddams]

The gun was taken first THEN Pretti was shot and murdered.

The video is absolutely clear on these points.

People like Terry and Damo are hoping we don't have eyes and ears.

 

[Damocles]

MN does not require a legal gun to be concealed. Common sense says, never leave your gun exposed. More common sense is, do not carry into a protest, especially if you are going to make yourself a potential object of attention, as
it raises questions, and it makes you more vulnerable to having it taken from you. Unless I am working, I choose appendix carry with a cover.

I choose something different, but it is because I got larger... lol. Open carry attracts attention, and only 2nd Amendment Auditors usually do that even in places with legal carry. However, they do provide an important service. If we do not exercise the right, we will lose it.

I do not think this man deserved the outcome, but, like Renee Good, really poor decisions were made by both. I will add that the same applies to the Border Patrol agents who shot this man.

Yeah, it seems that the first poor choice might have been approaching the guy when he was recording... I will view the video later, do we have his video? I'd be interested in what the agent said as he approached and to hear what was said during whatever struggle ensued.

 

[evince]

The gun was taken first THEN Pretti was shot and murdered.

The video is absolutely clear on these points.

But but but

All those J/6 rioters were all peaceful

I saw all the videos of them placing daisies in the capital police guns

And then only being brutalized by policemen who laid on the ground being tazed and being trapped in a door while peaceful protesters tried to crush it on him

It was the cops who were violent

Just watch all the videos

 

[Matt Dillon]

The gun was taken first THEN Pretti was shot and murdered.

The video is absolutely clear on these points.

Then gun was taken 1st and then it went off because he had a round chambered, then he went for the gun that wasn't there, cops called "Gun!" and lit him up.
After the loaded, chambered round gun he was carrying already went off. Not gonna claim it's not a really messed up situation, because it is.
A situation this dude inserted himself into. How far from there did he live? What was he doing there?
Why did he have 2-3 magazines? Most ordinary people that carry don't do that.
The whole thing happened in like 2-3 seconds.

 

[Margot]

What end times you crazy cult member?

"When you see The Reaper you know the Harvest is near"!

 

[Damocles]

Who exactly is supposed to be the fully trained element in an interaction such as this case?

Police don’t require that citizens are more informed on proceedures than them

To take that tact only results in dead citizens

And the American laws take such things into consideration

So do judges

When you get a permit you go through classes on how to interact with police, where you cannot carry, where you can, etc.

However, that is neither here nor there. If he was not cooperating they would not know he had a permit, he wasn't acting in a way that someone that took those classes would have acted if he was fighting the police rather than answering their queries.

Now what courts will look at is "what would a reasonable officer perceive in the position of the man who fired"... So, did he start the interaction or did he come upon it? Did someone in the struggle shout something like "He has a gun?" At any moment could he have seen a hand going towards the gun and perceive a threat?

These are the things they would be looking at, not "Do the cops think the citizen should be trained"... That never comes into the equation.

 

[Margot]

"Let Freedom Ring"??

 

[evince]

When you get a permit you go through classes on how to interact with police, where you cannot carry, where you can, etc.

However, that is neither here nor there. If he was not cooperating they would not know he had a permit, he wasn't acting in a way that someone that took those classes would have acted if he was fighting the police rather than answering their queries.

Now what courts will look at is "what would a reasonable officer perceive in the position of the man who fired"... So, did he start the interaction or did he come upon it? Did someone in the struggle shout something like "He has a gun?" At any moment could he have seen a hand going towards the gun and perceive a threat?

These are the things they would be looking at, not "Do the cops think the citizen should be trained"... That never comes into the equation.

How trained is ICE?

 

[Nomad]

Yes, the riot fomenters have clearly misrepresented what will likely happen if you're out there acting the fool and harassing LEOs.
They want you to die to obsucate their fraud on all taxpayers and you, too.
So snap to it, Skippy! Derp Derp
Be prepared to die for your cause. (that you were programmed with)

If someone is paying you to post this weak-ass shit, they should demand a refund.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

People like Terry and Damo are hoping we don't have eyes and ears.

You aren't looking at it objectively. This incident took place in a matter of a few confused seconds during a violent struggle between someone resisting arrest and law enforcement. There is no luxury of taking your time to make decisions in that situation.

Like I've said:

Pretti set himself up for failure by first having that pistol on him and then resisting arrest. When he continued to resist, at some point he made a wrong move, or one of the officers mistook what was happening, or both, and Pretti died for his initial mistake.

He shouldn't have been where he was and he shouldn't have been armed. That's not to say he couldn't protest, he could. His mistake was going up to the officers and their vehicle while armed. That is never a smart thing to do. You are just asking for trouble from the cops, any cops, doing that.

 

[Damocles]

How trained is ICE?

That would be part of it too. What training have they gone through, were they taught de-escalation tactics? Do they understand the right to video in all public settings? So, yes, that would be one of the considerations.

 

[Matt Dillon]

View attachment 72050

If someone is paying you to post this weak-ass shit, they should demand a refund.

I'm not a paid shill like you, dumbass. Type moar for your meager peanuts! Paid agitprop shill dork!

 

[Damocles]

People like Terry and Damo are hoping we don't have eyes and ears.

I have seen no video. I am in the "ask questions" stage of this. Later I'll watch all the video available, after I learn what people perceive from this. If they disarmed him first then fired will be part of what I am looking for, because someone says they saw that.