Five more Monks die in search of Democracy...

Damocles said:
Just the one huge example of the US of A.
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You had to travel back 250 years to find an example? We were lucky. We had Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Ben Franklin. They were historical anomalies, in terms of the broad sweep of the history of armed insurrections.

In modern history, almost all change towards social democratic institutions and governments, have come through relatively peaceful methods.
 
We will have to wait on an official goverment count of the dead, like in Iraq.
How do we know this is just not some liberal media spin ?
 
Darla said:
I know that's usually how economic sanctions work, when you cut off trade and stuff, but freezing the personal bank accounts of the actual leaders, I thought might have a different outcome.
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We can only get to those assets which they stored in American banks under their actual names.

It's extremely easy to stash money in other countries under different names. Corrupt politicos and drug dealers do it here.
 
Cypress said:
You had to travel back 250 years to find an example? We were lucky. We had Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Ben Franklin. They were historical anomalies, in terms of the broad sweep of the history of armed insurrections.

In modern history, almost all change towards social democratic institutions and governments, have come through relatively peaceful methods.
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Meh it wasn't a sparkling beacon of democracy or anything, but Afghanistan's defeat of the Soviets is an example of poorly trained and ill equipped nationalists defeating an imperial power attempted to colonize them.
 
Warren said:
We can only get to those assets which they stored in American banks under their actual names.

It's extremely easy to stash money in other countries under different names. Corrupt politicos and drug dealers do it here.
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No I know, but I thought that with international cooperation, they could freeze them everywhere. You know, except for China of course, and Hong Kong I guess. I guess if they're smart that's where they have their money anyway. I don't know. I would not want to see a mass murder here though, or torturings and imprisonments.
 
Darla said:
No I know, but I thought that with international cooperation, they could freeze them everywhere. You know, except for China of course, and Hong Kong I guess. I guess if they're smart that's where they have their money anyway. I don't know. I would not want to see a mass murder here though, or torturings and imprisonments.
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Well our reach doesn't extend to banks everywhere. But overall I agree with you that they are MORE effective at punishing the leaders than general sanctions.

I just don't think that sanctions are that effective overall.
 
Cypress said:
You had to travel back 250 years to find an example? We were lucky. We had Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Ben Franklin. They were historical anomalies, in terms of the broad sweep of the history of armed insurrections.

In modern history, almost all change towards social democratic institutions and governments, have come through relatively peaceful methods.
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No, I just point out the most successful example.
 
Darla said:
I know that's usually how economic sanctions work, when you cut off trade and stuff, but freezing the personal bank accounts of the actual leaders, I thought might have a different outcome.
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Not when they are in total control of the outcome and have little incentive or any compunctions against taking severe action to the populace.
 
If Cypress won't accept our own country's founding as an example, let's find one a little more near and dear to him.

I think I have it.

1917- Russian Bolsheviks overthrew the Czarist government and established a Communist state.
 
You had to travel back 250 years to find an example? We were lucky. We had Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Ben Franklin. They were historical anomalies, in terms of the broad sweep of the history of armed insurrections.

In modern history, almost all change towards social democratic institutions and governments, have come through relatively peaceful methods.

Most importantly you had the French distracting the British in Europe....
 
Warren said:
If Cypress won't accept the American Revolution let's find an example a little more up his alley.

I think I have it.

1917- Russian Bolsheviks overthrew the Czarist government and established a Communist state.
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Thanks for proving my point.

Like I said: Armed insurrections rarely lead to the estalishement of liberal democratic governments and institutions. They are usually a contest of arms, where the ones with the biggest and most weapons wins. Not neccessarily won by the group with the best democratic, humanitarian ideals.
 
Cypress said:
Thanks for proving my point.

Like I said: Armed insurrections rarely lead to the estalishement of liberal democratic governments and institutions. They are usually a contest of arms, where the ones with the biggest and most weapons wins. Not neccessarily won by the group with the best democratic, humanitarian ideals.
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I know I just wanted really badly to say that the Communist Revolution would be up your alley.

:)
 
1917- Russian Bolsheviks overthrew the Czarist government and established a Communist state.

With WWI holding the White Russian Army out of the action.....

Maybe we should attack Burma.....
 
AnyOldIron said:
1917- Russian Bolsheviks overthrew the Czarist government and established a Communist state.

With WWI holding the White Russian Army out of the action.....

Maybe we should attack Burma.....
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It would be far better than simply starving the protest out of the populace using sanctions.
 
I just have to do it.

did not Bush say that sanctions did not work and that was one reason we had to invade Iraq ?

:D
 
It would be far better than simply starving the protest out of the populace using sanctions.

Worked in Cambodia when the Vietnamese invaded....

Probably best our countries don't get involved, we've got a bad rep. India could do it, but they depend on Burmese oil. China won't...

Maybe the Aussies?
 
uscitizen said:
I just have to do it.

did not Bush say that sanctions did not work and that was one reason we had to invade Iraq ?

:D
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HE'S DONE IT! HE'S DONE IT!

HE HAS MANAGED TO BRING BUSH INTO THE DISCUSSION FOR THE
1,000,000th TIME THIS WEEK!

GIVE THIS MAN A MEDAL OF FREEDOM!
 
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