Florida book bans - the first step before burning

Dutch Uncle said:
"We get the government we deserve". Better parties are made by the voters, not the leaders, since without the voters, the party would collapse.
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The interesting thing about trump is he switched parties 6 times. He tried running in almost every party imaginable before he got into the Republican Party. Every other parties voters rejected trump.

trump did not pick the Republican Party, the Republican Party picked trump. trump only joined the Republicans by process of elimination. The Republican base looked at trump and said that is what they want.

trump will die soon. Maybe not before the next election, maybe not for a few years after that, but trump will not be alive a decade from now. He has destroyed his health too much, and is a very old man. But even when trump is gone, his voters, the ones who picked him, will still be with us. We are going to be dealing with trump voters for the rest of our lives.

Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, the US, including Democrats, are further right than most of the world. Most of the world is socialist. :)
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The joke goes that Thatcher was explaining British politics to Reagan. She explained, "there are three major parties: Labour, or what you would call socialists, Liberals, or what you would call socialists, and finally Tories, or what you would call socialists."
 
Eagle_Eye said:
It seems to me that the school system should be totally neutral on the subject of gender and gender selection, without promoting either point of view. Books like “Gender Queer: A Memoir.” seems to violate that standard in my opinion.
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The problem is, of course, that the (R)s have made gender a political issue. So now there are memoirs and other articles and books about the struggles that some are facing in that realm. When we were school kids, there were books and articles about the struggles that non-white people were facing. Some were assigned reading, others were just available. There is not a single thing wrong with older kids (h.s. age) having exposure to the issues that others face. It creates empathy and understanding. And if you happen to be one of those ppl dealing personally with discrimination, hatred, distrust, bullying, etc. just knowing that others share your sorrow goes a long way to relieving loneliness and anxiety.
 
Walt said:
The interesting thing about trump is he switched parties 6 times. He tried running in almost every party imaginable before he got into the Republican Party. Every other parties voters rejected trump.

trump did not pick the Republican Party, the Republican Party picked trump. trump only joined the Republicans by process of elimination. The Republican base looked at trump and said that is what they want.

trump will die soon. Maybe not before the next election, maybe not for a few years after that, but trump will not be alive a decade from now. He has destroyed his health too much, and is a very old man. But even when trump is gone, his voters, the ones who picked him, will still be with us. We are going to be dealing with trump voters for the rest of our lives.

The joke goes that Thatcher was explaining British politics to Reagan. She explained, "there are three major parties: Labour, or what you would call socialists, Liberals, or what you would call socialists, and finally Tories, or what you would call socialists."
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The "Republican Party" meaning the members of the Republican Party; the voters. Unlike the Democratic Party which picked their candidates for their voters. :)
 
Walt said:
I am, of course, talking about the worst. That being said, what is the worst 1% now, will soon be the worst 40%. It is just how America seems to work these days.



That is just silly. Mrs. Obama was (and is) of a healthy weight for her age. Obama's suggestions were very good. Making school food healthier is a very good idea.

And making school food more available is a good idea. Even if Toxic Top did hand out a little free food (doubtful, but hypothetically if), that would go almost no way to solving the problem.
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Mrs Obama's plan, however, was not succesful...do you remember why? (It is very obvious that you ...and a few others... will parrot anything you're told without question... that makes it much easier for everyone here to see and understand why you have such a problem believing me...or the truth...;))
And just FYI... I always had food in my classroom...and it did make a big difference...and my sister is an attorney...;) You said "Toxic Top"...:laugh:
 
Walt said:
That is just silly. Mrs. Obama was (and is) of a healthy weight for her age. Obama's suggestions were very good. Making school food healthier is a very good idea.

And making school food more available is a good idea. Even if Toxic Top did hand out a little free food (doubtful, but hypothetically if), that would go almost no way to solving the problem.
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Toxic is a racist and absolutely loathed Mrs. Obama, as she loathes all accomplished, educated, successful black women. Envy, no doubt.

Mr. Owl believes that school lunches should be free and considered just part of the cost of education. I agree.
 
Walt said:
The interesting thing about trump is he switched parties 6 times. He tried running in almost every party imaginable before he got into the Republican Party. Every other parties voters rejected trump.

trump did not pick the Republican Party, the Republican Party picked trump. trump only joined the Republicans by process of elimination. The Republican base looked at trump and said that is what they want.

trump will die soon. Maybe not before the next election, maybe not for a few years after that, but trump will not be alive a decade from now. He has destroyed his health too much, and is a very old man. But even when trump is gone, his voters, the ones who picked him, will still be with us. We are going to be dealing with trump voters for the rest of our lives.



The joke goes that Thatcher was explaining British politics to Reagan. She explained, "there are three major parties: Labour, or what you would call socialists, Liberals, or what you would call socialists, and finally Tories, or what you would call socialists."
Click to expand...

Trump needs to serve hard time for Jan 6 treason before checking out!
 
TOP said:
Mrs Obama's plan, however, was not succesful...do you remember why? (It is very obvious that you ...and a few others... will parrot anything you're told without question... that makes it much easier for everyone here to see and understand why you have such a problem believing me...or the truth...;))
And just FYI... I always had food in my classroom...and it did make a big difference...and my sister is an attorney...;) You said "Toxic Top"...:laugh:
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OMG! You going to start pretending to be a Shyster now!
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why is it a violation? Is there is a difference between offering book choices for book reports and forcing students to be gay? Yes, there is.

This thread is about banning books in school libraries, not limiting them to age levels or restricting them from being taught per se.

As I recall, my teachers always offered a list of books to chose from for book reports. The logic being that students would be more likely to read something they liked.

When I was in the Third Grade, "Moby Dick" was one choice, but it looked boring after I flipped through it in the school library. A friend offered an alternative choice; Robert Heinlein's "Have Space Suit, Will Travel". That single book ignited my passion for reading. Within the year I had read every SF book in the elementary school library; mostly Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein.

By Sixth Grade, I was reading on the college level and routinely saved my allowance for used book stores and public library sales. A paperback copy of Merriam-Webster was a constant companion to look up words I didn't understand.

IMO, banning books never ends well. Restricting to "age appropriate" is fine with me.


PS. I've never read "Moby Dick". I have read Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". :)
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Your reading history sounds much like mine. Mom taught us all to read before Kindergarten but as I recall the books we had weren't much fun. Then in first grade, the teacher read us a chapter from Charlotte's Web every day. I was captivated... there are stories in books, good stories! My mom got it for me from the library, and the rest was history. When we moved to the STL area, there wasn't a close library, but we went to the bookmobile every two weeks and got the maximum number of books allowed. Later a new library was built close by. Had three favorite places when I was growing up -- the school library, the public library, and the spot under the tree on the side of the house that was perfect for reading in the summer. :)

My experience with "Stranger" and "Moby" is the same as yours.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Toxic is a racist and absolutely loathed Mrs. Obama, as she loathes all accomplished, educated, successful black women. Envy, no doubt.

Mr. Owl believes that school lunches should be free and considered just part of the cost of education. I agree.
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Toxic has women issues,but especially women of color!
I remember the year she ragged on Oprah for days,then a few days later pretended she was all into MLK jr day,forgetting days before she spit her venom all day at Oprah!
 
TOP said:
Mrs Obama's plan, however, was not succesful...do you remember why? (It is very obvious that you ...and a few others... will parrot anything you're told without question... that makes it much easier for everyone here to see and understand why you have such a problem believing me...or the truth...;))
And just FYI... I always had food in my classroom...and it did make a big difference...and my sister is an attorney...;) You said "Toxic Top"...:laugh:
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The bolded is why we don't believe you. Work on that, fraudette. :laugh:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Your reading history sounds much like mine. Mom taught us all to read before Kindergarten but as I recall the books we had weren't much fun. Then in first grade, the teacher read us a chapter from Charlotte's Web every day. I was captivated... there are stories in books, good stories! My mom got it for me from the library, and the rest was history. When we moved to the STL area, there wasn't a close library, but we went to the bookmobile every two weeks and got the maximum number of books allowed. Later a new library was built close by. Had three favorite places when I was growing up -- the school library, the public library, and the spot under the tree on the side of the house that was perfect for reading in the summer. :)

My experience with "Stranger" and "Moby" is the same as yours.
Click to expand...

My first experience with reading was the newspaper everyday. I at first just looked at pictures and the funnies
but as time went on read more and more.
 
I AM said:
Toxic has women issues,but especially women of color!
I remember the year she ragged on Oprah for days,then a few days later pretended she was all into MLK jr day,forgetting days before she spit her venom all day at Oprah!
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Ah yes, the "Oprah for Prez" thread, wherein we can find her infamous racist joke about a black guy applying for unemployment, and her posting in Ebonics. Good times, good times. :rofl2:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
What is the purpose of having untrained and/or poorly-educated alt-right vets as teachers, other than to fill an empty spot in a classroom? Are they meant to cow the kids into obedience? Espouse RW ideas? Give the kids the impression that the military is the best career move? Why can't Black veterans apply?
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In fairness, Black veterans can apply. The program is setup to discourage them from applying. It all reminds me of what Frank Rizzo did to the Philadelphia Police Department. In 1966, Philadelphia had for the time unusually many Black police officers. 27.5% of hired police officers were Black, which is less impressive now, but was one of the highest in the country by far. Rizzo did not ban Blacks from apply, but by 1970, that had reduced to 7.7%. There are ways to stop from hiring Blacks, and to discourage Blacks from even applying.

It does seem that DeSantis is trying to introduce an armed right wing element into the schools. It is not just trying to fill empty positions. It is the beginning of a violent purge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Rizzo

ThatOwlWoman said:
It is true that whether you are civilian or vet, if you have a BS degree you can get a teaching certificate. That's what my son-in-law did; he has a BS in mathematics and now teaches middle school math. I don't have a BS, yet, but even I am considered qualified to serve as a substitute teacher.
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There is a small amount of training that is needed beyond a bachelors degree to get a teaching certificate, but it is not much. It is so small that veterans benefits will easily pay for it. Clinton introduced a program that will pay veterans a stipend to live off of while they get the teaching certificate, so they it is extremely easy for them to do it.

And honestly, most educated soldiers are in essence teachers already. Their job is to organize, and teach a large group of enlisted soldiers. It is not that different.

Even if the veteran does not have a bachelors degree, the veterans benefits will pay for them to get a bachelors degree. There really is no need for DeSantis' program, if the point is to educate veterans to be teachers.

Which is why I say the point is to get armed right wing paramilitary units into the schools. This is ugly.
 
TOP said:
I rest my case...;)
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fysKhXM.jpg
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why is it a violation? Is there is a difference between offering book choices for book reports and forcing students to be gay? Yes, there is.

This thread is about banning books in school libraries, not limiting them to age levels or restricting them from being taught per se.

As I recall, my teachers always offered a list of books to chose from for book reports. The logic being that students would be more likely to read something they liked.

When I was in the Third Grade, "Moby Dick" was one choice, but it looked boring after I flipped through it in the school library. A friend offered an alternative choice; Robert Heinlein's "Have Space Suit, Will Travel". That single book ignited my passion for reading. Within the year I had read every SF book in the elementary school library; mostly Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein.

By Sixth Grade, I was reading on the college level and routinely saved my allowance for used book stores and public library sales. A paperback copy of Merriam-Webster was a constant companion to look up words I didn't understand.

IMO, banning books never ends well. Restricting to "age appropriate" is fine with me.


PS. I've never read "Moby Dick". I have read Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". :)
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I'm not advocating banning books. But why would you put a book that violates school policy in the class room? I wouldn't want books on prostitution in the class room. Every city has a library that is the proper place for such books.
 
Walt said:
In fairness, Black veterans can apply. The program is setup to discourage them from applying. It all reminds me of what Frank Rizzo did to the Philadelphia Police Department. In 1966, Philadelphia had for the time unusually many Black police officers. 27.5% of hired police officers were Black, which is less impressive now, but was one of the highest in the country by far. Rizzo did not ban Blacks from apply, but by 1970, that had reduced to 7.7%. There are ways to stop from hiring Blacks, and to discourage Blacks from even applying.

It does seem that DeSantis is trying to introduce an armed right wing element into the schools. It is not just trying to fill empty positions. It is the beginning of a violent purge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Rizzo



There is a small amount of training that is needed beyond a bachelors degree to get a teaching certificate, but it is not much. It is so small that veterans benefits will easily pay for it. Clinton introduced a program that will pay veterans a stipend to live off of while they get the teaching certificate, so they it is extremely easy for them to do it.

And honestly, most educated soldiers are in essence teachers already. Their job is to organize, and teach a large group of enlisted soldiers. It is not that different.

Even if the veteran does not have a bachelors degree, the veterans benefits will pay for them to get a bachelors degree. There really is no need for DeSantis' program, if the point is to educate veterans to be teachers.

Which is why I say the point is to get armed right wing paramilitary units into the schools. This is ugly.
Click to expand...

It is. It's bad enough that so many schools already resemble prisons; now they want to staff them as though they are.
 
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