Fois Gras Ban

[LadyT]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/27/national/main1550028.shtml

"The bird liver delicacy foie gras was banned from restaurants Wednesday in a measure approved by the Chicago City Council after members decided it was inhumane to force-feed the birds. "

When I was in France this was a pretty popular food. I never ate it because I thought it was cruel to do that to the birds. The funny thing is that I thought I was special and unique in this, but as it turns out, I'm not really that special or unique. Yeah liberals!!

"More than a dozen countries, mostly in Europe, have banned production of the delicacy on the grounds of cruelty. But "

"California is the only state to ban the force-feeding of birds to produce the gourmet liver product, having passed a measure that would end the practice by 2012. "

 

[Damocles]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/27/national/main1550028.shtml

"The bird liver delicacy foie gras was banned from restaurants Wednesday in a measure approved by the Chicago City Council after members decided it was inhumane to force-feed the birds. "

When I was in France this was a pretty popular food. I never ate it because I thought it was cruel to do that to the birds. The funny thing is that I thought I was special and unique in this, but as it turns out, I'm not really that special or unique. Yeah liberals!!

"More than a dozen countries, mostly in Europe, have banned production of the delicacy on the grounds of cruelty. But "

"California is the only state to ban the force-feeding of birds to produce the gourmet liver product, having passed a measure that would end the practice by 2012. "

I know more Conservatives that refuse to eat this based on the treatment of the animal in making it than I do Liberals. You stereotype and make yourself look a fool.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

I know more Conservatives that refuse to eat this based on the treatment of the animal in making it than I do Liberals. You stereotype and make yourself look a fool.

Just because you, personally, know more conservatives who refuse to eat it means nothing statistically. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

The question is whether the local population has a sufficiently strong consensus to ban the behavior formally. Cali leads the way, once again.

 

[LadyT]

I know more Conservatives that refuse to eat this based on the treatment of the animal in making it than I do Liberals. You stereotype and make yourself look a fool.

Wrong. Your anecdotal assumptions make you look like a fool particularly considering the politicians in every are mentioned are liberal strongholds. Unless you're going to try to convince me that Chicago, Europe, and California lean to the right.

 

[Damocles]

Just because you, personally, know more conservatives who refuse to eat it means nothing statistically. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

The question is whether the local population has a sufficiently strong consensus to ban the behavior formally. Cali leads the way, once again.

Which was my point. She bases her idea that "liberals" do it based on her personal experience. If I did that I would assume only Conservatives cared. It is a preposterous assumption when made that way.

There is a reason almost all restaurants no longer serve veal or foie gras, and it isn't because Conservatives are eating it.

 

[Damocles]

Wrong. Your anecdotal assumptions make you look like a fool particularly considering the politicians in every are mentioned are liberal strongholds. Unless you're going to try to convince me that Chicago, Europe, and California lean to the right.

Just because of law doesn't mean that Conservatives, who believe that the market should decide rather than laws, are eating this.

It is a difference in ideology of government, not of love of the food. It is a silly stereotype based only in, "see we make laws" rather than how they act.

It wasn't laws that made veal so unpopular, it was education.

 

[Beefy]

I consider myself more conservative than liberal, and I wouldn't touch this shit, or veal or other deliberately cruel stuff.

It doesn't make a liberal to have compassion for animals. You leftist Marxites don't have a monopoly on humanity and decency. Stop pretending you do.

 

[Damocles]

I consider myself more conservative than liberal, and I wouldn't touch this shit, or veal or other deliberately cruel stuff.

It doesn't make a liberal to have compassion for animals. You leftist Marxites don't have a monopoly on humanity and decency. Stop pretending you do.

QFT

 

[Cypress]

Just because you, personally, know more conservatives who refuse to eat it means nothing statistically. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

The question is whether the local population has a sufficiently strong consensus to ban the behavior formally. Cali leads the way, once again.

LOL

Yep. All you have to do is look at the localities that have banned it. Liberal areas.

Lets give it up for liberals. Liberals saved the american bald eagle, the american alligator, the california condor - with regulation and laws. An anathema to neocons. They would have relied on "volunteerism" to save the american bald eagle.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Which was my point. She bases her idea that "liberals" do it based on her personal experience. If I did that I would assume only Conservatives cared. It is a preposterous assumption when made that way.

There is a reason almost all restaurants no longer serve veal or foie gras, and it isn't because Conservatives are eating it.

As a general principle, permissiveness is a Good Thing. It should be the default option in all cases; this is one of those things on which socialists and libertarians tend to agree.

You can, however, tell a lot about a local population by where they choose to withhold permission. Or choose not to withhold it, in this case.

 

[Damocles]

LOL

Yep. All you have to do is look at the localities that have banned it. Liberal areas.

Lets give it up for liberals. Liberals saved the american bald eagle, the american alligator, the california condor - with regulation and laws. An anathema to neocons. They would have relied on "volunteerism" to save the american bald eagle.

No. That is a simplistic measure. Conservatives do not look to government to solve all of their 'problems' even to the point of demanding you follow their morality in all things including what you eat.

Amazingly, it is conservatives who have, wrongly IMO, embraced some things based in that that most liberals complain about by working with the religious 'right'.

The liberals are banning the product because of the perceived immorality, when Social 'Conservatives' (actually very radical as they would want to change things radically) try the same thing you hear outcry from the left, when the left does it you only hear cheers.

 

[Cypress]

No. That is a simplistic measure. Conservatives do not look to government to solve all of their 'problems' even to the point of demanding you follow their morality in all things including what you eat.

We tried the conservative way: relying soley on human decency and volunteerism. It almost killed the american bald eagle, and the california condor.

We tried the liberal way: laws and smart regulation - and it saved them.

 

[Damocles]

We tried the conservative way: relying soley on human decency and volunteerism. It almost killed the american bald eagle, and the california condor.

We tried the liberal way: laws and smart regulation - and it saved them.

As I said, cheer on laws based on your specific morality and object when others work to make laws based on the same. I'll object to both methods.

Now the Condor and the Eagle were not based on morality solely, and were not solely passed by liberals.

 

[Beefy]

LOL

Yep. All you have to do is look at the localities that have banned it. Liberal areas.

Lets give it up for liberals. Liberals saved the american bald eagle, the american alligator, the california condor - with regulation and laws. An anathema to neocons. They would have relied on "volunteerism" to save the american bald eagle.

Bullshit. It doesn't take a political idiology to care for nature. I'm a conservationist, and a conservative when it comes tom this shit.

Its as if you're painting some picture that in order to care about nature or animals, it must default you to being a liberal. Sell that shit to someone who doesn't know, not me.

And stop confusing party for ideology. You're essentially trying to say that if you love big government then you love the enviornment. If you like private property, you just hate the enviornment. Sell that crap elsewhere. It's not not a liberal/conservative, black and white thing.

 

[Cypress]

Bullshit. It doesn't take a political idiology to care for nature. I'm a conservationist, and a conservative when it comes tom this shit.

Its as if you're painting some picture that in order to care about nature or animals, it must default you to being a liberal. Sell that shit to someone who doesn't know, not me.

And stop confusing party for ideology. You're essentially trying to say that if you love big government then you love the enviornment. If you like private property, you just hate the enviornment. Sell that crap elsewhere. It's not not a liberal/conservative, black and white thing.

lol

Calm down beefy. Its not an either/or situation. Citizen groups, private individuals, and non-profit environmental advocacy groups are all part of the solution. As are laws and regulations, where appropriate.

 

[doniston]

this is SUCH an important thing to be arguing about. It is SOOOOO political. " NOT"

 

[OrnotBitwise]

this is SUCH an important thing to be arguing about. It is SOOOOO political. " NOT"

Indeed. It's the sort of thing conservatives waste too much time on.

Personally, I applaud any individual who avoids the stuff on moral grounds, any restaurant that simply doesn't serve it because it makes the staff kind of queasy, and any municipality or state that bans the practice of producing it. None of these are mutually exclusive.

 

[Beefy]

lol

Calm down beefy. Its not an either/or situation. Citizen groups, private individuals, and non-profit environmental advocacy groups are all part of the solution. As are laws and regulations, where appropriate.

I am calm. I just take exception to the fact that you lefties try to take claim to all progress. Your "progress" excepts the progress that conservatism, fiscally and enviornmentally makes.

You seem to be of the belief that liberalism is the sole provider. Well, its not.

I oppose the war in Iraq because I'm a conservative on foreign policy. I oppose corporatism because I am conservative with regard to the individual and their rights. I oppose the gross expansion of the federal governemnt, and their wiretapping, and their spying and their seizure of private property because I am a conservative constitutionalist.

 

[Damocles]

I am calm. I just take exception to the fact that you lefties try to take claim to all progress. Your "progress" excepts the progress that conservatism, fiscally and enviornmentally makes.

You seem to be of the belief that liberalism is the sole provider. Well, its not.

I oppose the war in Iraq because I'm a conservative on foreign policy. I oppose corporatism because I am conservative with regard to the individual and their rights. I oppose the gross expansion of the federal governemnt, and their wiretapping, and their spying and their seizure of private property because I am a conservative constitutionalist.

Preach it!

 

[Damocles]

this is SUCH an important thing to be arguing about. It is SOOOOO political. " NOT"

Actually I find it indicative of the difference between liberalism and conservatism on an issue they largely agree on.

Thankfully the human is a complex animal that can discuss this at the same time as holding a more critical conversation on another topic.