For those that hold onto guns, just to keep the government away.

Oneuli said:
The ATF initially tried to proceed with a less militarized effort back on February 28. That ended badly for them, with four ATF agents dead and 16 more wounded. At that point, they waited for almost two months, hoping to find a peaceful solution. That was partly successful, since it resulted in 35 cultists leaving the compound. But the FBI was worried that the longer they waited, the greater the chance of a Jonestown-like situation, with mass suicide. And, in the meantime, worries remained about abuse of the children in the compound. At any point the Davidians could have peacefully surrendered, but they had an apocalyptic mindset.
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Civilized people handle the situation in a civilized manner. Militarized Dictatorships handle these situations in a more ruthless, vicious way. Glad to note where you stand.
 
Have you ever watched a Republican fondling his gun?

They have a certain little twinkle in their eye that comes from their little self-important wet-dream- I COULD RULE THE WORLD with this thang!!
 
evince said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff#Prosecutions_of_some_standoff_participants

Prosecutions of some standoff participants[edit]
The first criminal case resulting from the standoff, against six Bundy supporters, was declared a mistrial by U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro on April 24, 2017. Six men had been charged with conspiring with Cliven Bundy to prevent a court-ordered cattle seizure. The mistrial was declared hours after the jury convicted two men of some of the 10 counts in the indictment. The jurors reported to the court they were "hopelessly deadlocked" on the remaining counts and defendants, despite the judge having sent them back to deliberate further but they were unable to reach any unanimous verdicts for four defendants, described by prosecutors as the "least culpable" of the 17 who were charged, and on the remaining counts for the two who were convicted. Over 50 prosecution witnesses testified in the two-month trial. Former militia group member, Gregory Burleson, of Arizona, who has also been a paid FBI informant, was convicted of assault upon and threatening of a federal officer, aiding extortion via both interstate commerce and travel, obstruction of justice, plus multiple gun counts. He faces a 57-year mandatory minimum sentence. Idaho activist Todd Engel was found guilty of obstruction of justice and interstate travel in aid of extortion. Representing himself at trial, he may be sentenced to as much as 30 years in federal prison on the first two charges. At his July 26 sentencing, Burleson was given 68 years for recruiting others in Arizona to join the standoff, and posting "alcohol fueled' rants encouraging others to do the same.[168] Engel was to be sentenced on the following day with Cliven, Ammon and Ryan Bundy and two others expected to be tried later in 2017.[169] Retrials of the first six and the trials of the remaining eleven defendants were originally scheduled for June 26th by Judge Navarro.[170]
The retrial for the four defendants for whom no verdict was reached in April began on July 11, 2017, in Las Vegas.[171] The Jury began deliberations on August 15, 2017.[172] On August 22nd, they found two of the defendants not guilty on all charges and cleared the other two of most charges, but they could not reach verdicts on four charges against Eric Parker and two charges against Scott Drexler.[173]
The first defendant to be sentenced is Gerald "Jerry" DeLemus of Rochester, New Hampshire who tried to change his guilty plea to "not guilty." He received a little more than seven years from Judge Navarro, for conspiracy and interstate travel in aid of extortion, with credit for the 16 months he has already served.[174]
A verdict of not guilty was returned on two defendants August 22, 2017 by the jury after 3 days of deliberation. Two others were found not guilty of several of the charges and unable to come to a decision on other charges. Ricky Lovelien and Steven Stewart were acquitted of all 10 charges and ordered released. There were not-guilty findings on most charges against Scott Drexler and Eric Parker.[175][176] On August 23, 2017, the court scheduled a retrial for September 25, 2017 on both Drexler and Parker and ordered them released to return to Idaho, pending retrial.[177][178] On August 31, 2017 the court scheduled a trial date for October 10, 2017 for Cliven Bundy, Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne and Peter Santilli. Included with this group will be the retrial of Scott Drexler and Eric Parker.[179] On October 6, 2017, the court rescheduled to October 30, 2017 the trial for 6 of the 7 defendants. Peter Santilli pled guilty to conspiracy to injure or impede federal officers by blocking BLM law enforcement officers in with his car, and was released pending sentencing in January 2018.[180][4] On October 23, 2017, Scott Drexler and Eric Parker each pled guilty to a single count of obstruction of a court order, a misdemeanor charge. Both men will be sentenced on February 2, 2018.[181] On November 14, 2017, Micah McGuire pled guilty to a single charge of conspiracy to impede federal officers, and was released pending sentencing on February 14, 2018[182]
During a sealed court hearing on November 29, 2017 judge Gloria M. Navarro considered multiple defense motions seeking dismissal of the case due to alleged withholding of exculpatory evidence by the federal government. After the sealed hearing, judge Navarro granted pretrial release to Cliven Bundy, his son Ammon Bundy, and co-defendant Ryan Payne.[183]
On December 4, 2017, U.S. Magistrate Judge Peggy Leen ordered the pretrial release of the remaining defendants.[184]
On December 20, 2017, Judge Navarro declared a mistrial, stating that federal prosecutors had willfully violated evidence rules and failed to turn over pertinent documents to the defense. Both sides were instructed to submit legal briefs by December 29 on whether the government should be allowed to pursue a new trial with a hearing to be held on January 8, 2018. A new tentative trial date was set for February 26, 2018.[185]
On December 21, 2017, United States Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered an examination into the federal prosecution's mishandling of the Bundy case.[186]
On January 8, 2018, U.S. District Court Judge Gloria Navarro dismissed with prejudice the criminal charges against Cliven Bundy, his sons Ammon and Ryan, and co-defendant Ryan Payne regarding the standoff. At that time she also scheduled a February 26, 2018 trial date for "Tier 3" defendants Melvin Bundy, Dave Bundy, Jason Woods and Joseph O'Shaughnessy.[187] On February 7, 2018, the federal government moved to dismiss with prejudice the indictments against the remaining defendants "in the interests of justice."[188] On July 19, 2018, Todd Engel was sentenced to 14 years in federal prison after being convicted on charges of obstruction of justice and interstate travel in aid of extortion.[189] On August 9, 2018, Scott Drexler was sentenced to time served while Eric Parker received one year of supervised release.[190] On September 11, 2018, Pete Santilli was sentenced to time served plus two years of supervised release.[191] On September 27, 2018, Blaine Cooper was sentenced to 20 months already spent in custody and faces a combined three years of supervised release.[192]
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Run your mouth all you want..those long guns stopped the government.
 
It really takes a special kind of stupid to think our forefathers had even the slightest notion to include in the Constitution they were drafting, as they were thinking it all out.......

....a guarantee to all citizens the right to own a gun- just in case they want to overthrow us and use it on us!

Fucking hilarious! Beyond all imagination.

"Here folks- we set up this Constitution so that if you don't like us- you're free to overthow us and kill us with guns"!

Idiots!
 
I think our forefathers should have had a closing note to the Constitution-

- If any idiot ever tries to misinterpret our good will and intentions for America- they should be taken out to the public square and be shot on sight!
 
I'm the rare progressive liberal who doesn't obsess about firearms unless they're totally inappropriate for civilian ownership.

However, whoever thinks that they'll combat the United States Government with smalls arms is a complete moron.

The only way to overthrow the government isn't quite that extreme--just fucking vote.
That can actually work.
 
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Jade Dragon said:
If you ever decide to build things without getting permitted. Don't draw a gun on the government employee that comes out to inspect, or shut it down. You will take away needed resources, when a squad of cops have to show up to take you into custody. If you try that now, they will shoot if you don't back down, and possibly kill your dumb ass. So much for stopping the government taking over. This isn't the wild west, where a gun served as law. The government already controls things.
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I am missing a point here. Are you advocating taking away people's guns? That would be unconstitutional. Are Government agents now going to be knocking on our doors to inspect our homes? That too, would be unconstitutional.

I don't get the point.
 
Truth Detector said:
I am missing a point here. Are you advocating taking away people's guns? That would be unconstitutional. Are Government agents now going to be knocking on our doors to inspect our homes? That too, would be unconstitutional.

I don't get the point.
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jade thinks guns should be a privilege, not a right.
 
Guille said:
jade thinks guns should be a privilege, not a right.
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Wow! Should Jade be the "decider" of who gets to own a gun and who doesn't as well?

I am always fascinated by the Fascistic beliefs of the left; that they, somehow, should be ordained as the "deciders" of what is good, what is bad, what we need, what we don't need and how we should live, or not live. It's obvious they hate liberty and our Constitution.
 
Adolf_Twitler said:
It really takes a special kind of stupid to think our forefathers had even the slightest notion to include in the Constitution they were drafting, as they were thinking it all out.......

....a guarantee to all citizens the right to own a gun- just in case they want to overthrow us and use it on us!

Fucking hilarious! Beyond all imagination.

"Here folks- we set up this Constitution so that if you don't like us- you're free to overthow us and kill us with guns"!

Idiots!
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The ONLY reason for the Second Amendment ... is the ability to overthrow a tyrannical Government. Most Grade School children are taught this: 'It's not only your Right, but your Duty'.
(Course, if you're Canadian, you wouldn't know this)

"The Founding Fathers, having just broken away from Great Britain, understood the new federal government they were ratifying might one day become just as tyrannical. If it had the authority to control citizen access to firearms, then it could disarm them, just as the British attempted to do. This would make any attempts to restore liberties futile.
The Second Amendment was specifically included in the Bill of Rights to prevent this."
https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2014/09/22/2nd-amendment-original-meaning-and-purpose/
 
Jack said:
The ONLY reason for the Second Amendment ... is the ability to overthrow a tyrannical Government. Most Grade School children are taught this: 'It's not only your Right, but your Duty'.
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Suppose this were true in 1788....what possible relevance can it have now?
Can you still stand up to the government's muskets with your muskets?

That's why conservative constructionists are so pathetically brain-dead.
The constitution is either a living, evolving document or it's an obsolete, irrelevant document.
Sorry, but there are no other sane choices.
 
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NiftyNiblick said:
Suppose this were true in 1788....what possible relevance can it have now?
Can you still stand up to the government's muskets with your muskets?

That's why conservative constructions are so pathetically brain-dead.
The constitution is either a living, evolving document or it's an obsolete, irrelevant document.
Sorry, but there are no other sane choices.
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Yeah, cuz, the founders were too stupid to realize technology would advance.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Suppose this were true in 1788....what possible relevance can it have now?
Can you still stand up to the government's muskets with your muskets?

That's why conservative constructions are so pathetically brain-dead.
The constitution is either a living, evolving document or it's an obsolete, irrelevant document.
Sorry, but there are no other sane choices.
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It's suppose to be a check on the Government. The IDEA, the INTENT, is that the 'Government' really IS 'We the People'.

With 'blanket surveillance' on the general public, with a 'militarized Police Force' in every town and hamlet, with stooges like evince and Oneuli acting like boogle head toys nodding in agreement with every Government attack, ANY idea of 'overthrowing' the US Government with 'firearms' is preposterous.

Timothy McVeigh felt the State went too far, stepped over the line, committed a crime against the American Public by using undue, unnecessary, Military-style force against a rural, Christian, communal group. McVeigh felt it was his Duty to use his 'Second Amendment' right to respond. It was a Political Act. (It wasn't this 'terrorism' crap the State propaganda agents spew)

I think the State got the 'Message'.
 
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