Founding Fathers burned Tree

Socrtease said:
As for who has been harmed by this listening in on conversations, anyone recall the article from last year where they talked about the NSA listening in on Soldiers calls home and getting off on the phone sex between service members and their spouses, significant others? So there SM is your harm to American citizens.

and for those with bad memories, here is where you can read the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5987804&page=1
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Soldiers talking on a communications system set up by their employers don't have the same rights to privacy that a citizen has on a public system that he has paid for.
 
Socrtease said:
wrong again Constitutitard. I have represented illegal aliens in this country charged with crimes and had evidence suppressed because the police violated their rights under the fourth Amendment.
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Again you're talking about simple crimes not acts of war. Do you know the difference?
 
Southern Man said:
Soldiers talking on a communications system set up by their employers don't have the same rights to privacy that a citizen has on a public system that he has paid for.
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Yo constitutitard, the NSA already admitted this was wrong. Not only that but they listened to Journalists, and other civilians as well. There is NO PLACE in the Constitution that allows this.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you brought it up, I just shut the door on it.

and this is YOUR strawman, because I'm STILL referring to US citizens and visiting aliens here legally.

FYI, the 'we the people' thing only applies to us as sovereigns over the government we created, not who are the only ones that have rights.

You need to take a constitution/government class. preferably not one run by the state this time.
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The bolded portion makes my point.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
No, SM. we're not. The PATRIOT ACT was initially created under the guise of fighting terrorism, but is now being applied to domestic criminal activity. Get off the whole terrorists crap because that's not what I'm referring to.
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Can you cite where it has been used to get a conviction?
 
Socrtease said:
Yo constitutitard, the NSA already admitted this was wrong. Not only that but they listened to Journalists, and other civilians as well. There is NO PLACE in the Constitution that allows this.
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Can you cite where this type of gathered information was used to gain a conviction for a crime that was not an act of war?
 
Southern Man said:
Can you cite where this type of gathered information was used to gain a conviction for a crime that was not an act of war?
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It doesn't matter you totalitarian. Rights are violated EVEN if they don't turn up anything. Just so you don't have to look it up constitutitard the Fourth goes thusly:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."​

No where in there does it require that a conviction be had before a violation. Our government is NOT EVER to listen to us. Not without a warrant as described in that lovely little paragraph above.
 
During WWII German spies came on shore and planned a terrorist attack. They were caught and tried and sentenced in an American court. At no point in the system can you summarily execute someone, thereby denying them their rights, no matter who they are, war or no war.
 
Watermark said:
During WWII German spies came on shore and planned a terrorist attack. They were caught and tried and sentenced in an American court. At no point in the system can you summarily execute someone, thereby denying them their rights, no matter who they are, war or no war.
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Right, guess u missed the movie Panther?
 
Watermark said:
During WWII German spies came on shore and planned a terrorist attack. They were caught and tried and sentenced in an American court. At no point in the system can you summarily execute someone, thereby denying them their rights, no matter who they are, war or no war.
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And the whole system of American Justice was destroyed! Our way of life came to an end! It was ANARCHY!
 
Watermark said:
During WWII German spies came on shore and planned a terrorist attack. They were caught and tried and sentenced in an American court. At no point in the system can you summarily execute someone, thereby denying them their rights, no matter who they are, war or no war.
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Correction: a US military court-martial.
 
Socrtease said:
It doesn't matter you totalitarian. Rights are violated EVEN if they don't turn up anything. Just so you don't have to look it up constitutitard the Fourth goes thusly:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."​

No where in there does it require that a conviction be had before a violation. Our government is NOT EVER to listen to us. Not without a warrant as described in that lovely little paragraph above.
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Your rights aren't violated if there's no conviction.
 
Southern Man said:
Your rights aren't violated if there's no conviction.
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Your a fucking idiot! Many people have been acquited of a crime and then sued the agency that violated their rights and won millions of dollars because their rights were violated. God what a fucking moron you are. There have been numerous 1983 civil rights suits resulting from evidence suppression which led to acquitals. The more you open your mouth the more you prove you have NO idea of what a violation of constitutional rights are. You are the king of the Constitutitards.
 
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