Good debate between prominent atheists, Anglican bishops, and Jewish rabbis
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
No way I am going to view this thing (I never view these kinds of things that are posted without accompanying comments), but I have never heard Dawkins say anything I thought to be especially logical...or helpful in answering the question: Are there no gods or is there at least one?
If there was something he said that you figure WAS important...would you just mention it?
If there was something he said that you figure WAS important...would you just mention it?
Blind guess.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
That’s as far as I got.
With you there. When people post videos without comment I figure it wasn't important enough to them to summarize OR they didn't really understand it but want to make people think they are somehow interested in the topic. I suspect with Cypress it is the latter.
Dawkins is not really in his metier with regards to philosophy but he's not wrong on many points. Sure he may mess up some of the subtleties of some religious arguments I found his book The God Delusion" to be quite readable and approachable and not that bad.
You keep demanding an either or. But remember Dawkins is a SCIENTIST. You would have to understand how a scientist approaches these types of topics. Now Dawkins is a bit more on the side of atheism that is pretty strongly worded. But as has been PROVEN time and again, atheism also has a variant that works with how SCIENTISTS work.
That is the idea that we LACK ANY REAL EVIDENCE for God. But we cannot prove a universal negative like "God does not exist". So we, as scientists, look at the evidence and say "I cannot reject the hypothesis that there is no God".
I know this bothers you to no end because you don't really understand it or how science functions.
Interestingly that's probably as far as Cypress got. Remember, with Cypress the IMPORTANT THING is you recognize how brilliant and far-reaching his mind is. He spends the day walking the ways of the mind, ensconced in his sanctuary of intellect, where only gods like himself dare tread.
Then he blesses you with dribbles from what he has found.
Are you impressed yet? If not keep trying.
You'd be wrong. But that's par for the course with you.
But thanks for YET AGAIN coming on a thread and just telling people you don't care about it.
That's what a fully functional human being does. When they're not screaming "Fuck you" at everyone, that is.
I don't think Dawkins ever really makes a compelling case either, but that's just my opinion. He is a superstar among 21st century atheists and one of their leading spokespersons.
I thought it was interesting that he said the bible shouldn't be any more privileged as a source of wisdom and morality than Greek fables or Tolstoy.
I have my own thoughts on that.
He also has a lot of complaints about the Old Testament, aka Hebrew bible, but the lady rabbi had an interesting response, which is that if you haven't read the Talmud and all the rabbinic literature you are not in a position to say what the old testament means.
I agree with that.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
I DO find him to be…
The Most Interesting Man on the Internet.
Interesting in how self absorbed a person can be that is.
That's a fair enough point. But what it basically says is that the Bible is NOT a reliable source without a fuck ton of caveats and additional information.
Which kinda seems to align with the point that Bible should hold no special status as a more legitimate source of information than any other random writing.
I'm sure it's a lot more fun to spend all our time bashing Trump and Melania.
I am not the one that elevated Dawkins to the position of sacred prophet among atheists -- atheists did that. I am working with the material atheists give me.
This seminar was not a bunch of slack jawed American evangelicals. These people were educated British atheists, British Anglicans, British Jews, and their discussions were at the highest levels of discourse and framed by questions about historical truth, scientific truth, literary truth, moral truth, spiritual truth. If this doesn't appeal to you, that's fine, you don't have to visit this thread or watch the video.
You are the only one obsessed with Dawkins. No one else on this forum talks about Dawkins.
The point to make here is that Greek fables don't really present any visions of an ultimate truth. They are good stories, sometimes with moral lessons. That is why they never displaced the bible or Christianity as a source of higher truth and ultimate justice.
Tolstoy wouldn't be Tolstoy without Christianity.
Are you daft?
People posting videos should be on youtube. Not worth the time.
Again, I don't really care about Tolstoy.
Huh? Honestly I thought that was the POINT of a fable. A metaphor for a deeper truth.
But I will defer to you because you are the smartest man on earth.
The point being that writings are just that: WRITINGS. They can easily be made up they can easily be true, they can even be mixtures of the two. There's nothing SPECIAL about the Bible that makes it MORE of a reliable writing about ultimate truth than any other imagining other people have put pen to paper about.
Unless you think there's something SUPERNATURAL about the Bible. Which would be ironic because you treat the good moral lessons of the Bible like my dog treats a phone pole.
Commander Dutch
Sworn to support and defend the Constitution
Dawkins is a bomb-thrower. Although I haven't listened to this yet, I can guess what he says since I've listened to his bullshit before.
The comments were interesting since they encompassed the hardcore believers on both ends.
As for the central question, yes, the Bible is still relevant. It's a book of ancient wisdom like the Quran, Torah and other ancient texts. Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" is a shorter read, but in the age of nukes and space lasers, it's no less relevant since, like the Bible and other ancient texts, humans haven't changed in the past 30,000+ years. Much can be learned from those who spent a lot of time considering the plight of humans rather than spending all day watching TikTok videos about Haitians eating cats.