Government and racism - a speech by Ron Paul

[Litmus]

The trick is to let society decide for itself. It's called "consensus" you see.

Naturally, there are factions. There are always factions. The process needs to be as public and transparent -- and, therefor, unwieldy -- as possible.

Society is an abstraction. There are only individuals.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Society is an abstraction. There are only individuals.

But individual humans cannot live without society. Your observation is nonsequitur.

Atomism is a disease. You need therapy, fast, dude.

 

[Litmus]

But individual humans cannot live without society. Your observation is nonsequitur.

Atomism is a disease. You need therapy, fast, dude.

Sure they can. have you seen castaway? Your worldview is based on a lie. that's not a good starting point.

 

[Battleborne]

Kudos...!

Don't worry! Even the Nazis didn't burn the "you crazy rabbit" comic book series...so your stuff is safe.

at least this cut was original...

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Sure they can. have you seen castaway? Your worldview is based on a lie. that's not a good starting point.

Yours is based on comic books and movies, it would seem.

Certainly single individuals can live for short periods of time without a society. When they do, however, it's always in extremis: either not by choice or because of mental disorder. Survival is always predicated on supplies and tools prepared in advance, too. Single individuals have no future outside of society. The best they can hope for is to stave off death until rescued.

The natural state of the human animal is in a society.

Yes, "society" is just an abstraction, on the most simplistic level. So too are "species", "family", "friend" and "nation" for that matter. As you yourself pointed out to uscitizen not too long ago, when he was objecting to your use of labels, just because something is an abstraction doesn't mean it has no validity.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Actually, "individual" is just an abstraction, when you persue that particular reduction too near absurdity. Cells exist. Cells have life. Alelles persist from generation to generation and are the fundamental units of life. All else is just abstraction.

 

[Litmus]

Actually, "individual" is just an abstraction, when you persue that particular reduction too near absurdity. Cells exist. Cells have life. Alelles persist from generation to generation and are the fundamental units of life. All else is just abstraction.

But cells of an individual are intextricable bound to each other to survive. Individuals, however, can form new alliances, break old ones, depend on others, or choose not to do so, according to their own discretion, tastes, and moralities.


I was about to mention how your attack on atomism is an attack on individualism. funny. You beat me to it.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

But cells of an individual are intextricable bound to each other to survive. Individuals, however, can form new alliances, break old ones, depend on others, or choose not to do so, according to their own discretion, tastes, and moralities.


I was about to mention how your attack on atomism is an attack on individualism. funny. You beat me to it.

Cells that are too specialized cannot live on their own, this is true. The same is true of individual animals that depend heavily on specialization: we cannot live without our social organism.

The trouble with modern atomists is that they're intellectually dishonest, in the main. Take you, for example. You say that individuals should be "free" (sic) to associate based on their individual moralities, yet you only accept one, extremely narrow code of morality as valid. You accept the American, white, middle class morality as it was fed you and refuse to admit that there are any flaws in it or that any other moral code might be equally workable.

You're actually an authoritarian: you believe in suppressing or exterminating all who oppose your will.

 

[Litmus]

Cells that are too specialized cannot live on their own, this is true.

But humans are not at this level of codependance.

The same is true of individual animals that depend heavily on specialization: we cannot live without our social organism.

Which is one of my anti-globalization arguments.

The trouble with modern atomists is that they're intellectually dishonest, in the main.

firstly, Im an individualist, not at atomist. I have no opinion on which opinion from some guy in an old robe is more wrong.

Take you, for example. You say that individuals should be "free" (sic) to associate based on their individual moralities, yet you only accept one, extremely narrow code of morality as valid.

I think only one is successful long term, and it's not that narrow.

You accept the American, white, middle class morality as it was fed you and refuse to admit that there are any flaws in it or that any other moral code might be equally workable.

You're actually an authoritarian: you believe in suppressing or exterminating all who oppose your will.

I actually have many issues with white middle class thinking. They're too materialistic, short sighted, and jew-trusting.

And I believe nobody should be destroyed and that all ideas should be discussed open and honestly.

 

[Litmus]

Take note fair readers, ornot is the one going on about how ATOMISTS must be destroyed, yet I'm the totalitarian in his gunchy view.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

I think only one is successful long term, and it's not that narrow.


I actually have many issues with white middle class thinking. They're too materialistic, short sighted, and jew-trusting.

And I believe nobody should be destroyed and that all ideas should be discussed open and honestly.

No, you don't. You claim to but you don't follow through, which is why I accuse you of intellectual dishonesty. You simply fart words, as I like to put it.

You dismiss too many other points of view as being unworthy of consideration. Take your hostility to Islam, for example. Indeed, on the one occaision when I, for one, tried to engage you in an actual discussion of substance, you flatly refused to submit any of your basic premises -- or even your specific positions -- to scrutiny. All you did was to endlessly reiterate dogmatic statements of opinion to which you would entertain no question whatsoever.

Typical atomist, in my experience.

BTW -- you embrace white, middle class American values, not the middle class per se. Like all people, people of the middle class tend to fall short of their own stated ideals. This tends to piss off the young. You come across as very young indeed.

 

[Litmus]

No, you don't. You claim to but you don't follow through, which is why I accuse you of intellectual dishonesty. You simply fart words, as I like to put it.

You dismiss too many other points of view as being unworthy of consideration. Take your hostility to Islam, for example. Indeed, on the one occaision when I, for one, tried to engage you in an actual discussion of substance, you flatly refused to submit any of your basic premises -- or even your specific positions -- to scrutiny. All you did was to endlessly reiterate dogmatic statements of opinion to which you would entertain no question whatsoever.

Typical atomist, in my experience.

Blah blah blah, shut your ignorant mouth you pseudointellectual hack. I don't get into stuff with you because your a language mangling idiot, who's totally bought into the New World Order totalitarianism as the only rational endpoint of human existence. You're a brainwashed imbecile.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Take note fair readers, ornot is the one going on about how ATOMISTS must be destroyed, yet I'm the totalitarian in his gunchy view.

Is joke, Comrade. Is problem you capitalists have. Not only are you ni kulturny but you have no sense of humor either.

 

[uscitizen]

Was Tipper there? We can throw in some Ozzy and Twisted Sister, her favorites for teh burn....

The best I can recall they were buring Darwin and such garbage that conflicts with creationsim and ID.

 

[Litmus]

Is joke, Comrade. Is problem you capitalists have. Not only are you ni kulturny but you have no sense of humor either.

strad wheat say, motherfucker!

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Blah blah blah, shut your ignorant mouth you pseudointellectual hack. I don't get into stuff with you because your a language mangling idiot, who's totally bought into the New World Order totalitarianism as the only rational endpoint of human existence. You're a brainwashed imbecile.

There is no "endpoint of human existence" you tiresome little troll. There is only social evolution and history.

Go, march in lockstep with the other lemmings, off the cliff of futility into the great sea of consumerism. That's the only place you and your kind are headed, unless, maybe, into some militia encampment with a bunch of fourth generation offspring of first cousin matings. Be sure to hold her muzzle shut.

Meanwhile, the adults will try to make your lot a little better. I hope that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[Litmus]

There is no "endpoint of human existence" you tiresome little troll. There is only social evolution and history.

Go, march in lockstep with the other lemmings, off the cliff of futility into the great sea of consumerism. That's the only place you and your kind are headed, unless, maybe, into some militia encampment with a bunch of fourth generation offspring of first cousin matings. Be sure to hold the muzzle shut.

Meanwhile, the adults will try to make your lot a little better. I hope that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.

Then you believe the new world order is the only rational next stop of social evolution. It's not forward, it's backwards. It's dark ages style tyranny and suppression. We individualists of genius level will the save the world from you miguided statist technocrats of average intelligence.

Have no fear, AssHatZombie is here!

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Then you believe the new world order is the only rational next stop of social evolution. It's not forward, it's backwards. It's dark ages style tyranny and suppression. We individualists of genius level will the save the world from you miguided statist technocrats of average intelligence.

Have no fear, AssHatZombie is here!

LOL! Do you have any idea of the number of wildly unsupported assumptions are implicit in this rant?

The New World Order, as if some monolithic, black helicopter guarded, totalitarian dystopia were the only conceivable alternative to your elitist, genocidal fantasies.

Elitist? Oh, you bet. Hark to the dead giveaways. "We individualists of genius" is just another way of saying "the non-cattle elite", obviously.

The only way your ideas could possibly work is if you kill off seven eighths of the world's population. Which is exactly what you immoral nationalist pug-fuckers want to do. Keep the rest of the world in the stone age (so first you have to bomb them back into it).

 

[Litmus]

LOL! Do you have any idea of the number of wildly unsupported assumptions are implicit in this rant?

The New World Order, as if some monolithic, black helicopter guarded, totalitarian dystopia were the only conceivable alternative to your elitist, genocidal fantasies.

Elitist? Oh, you bet. Hark to the dead giveaways. "We individualists of genius" is just another way of saying "the non-cattle elite", obviously.

The only way your ideas could possibly work is if you kill off seven eighths of the world's population. Which is exactly what you immoral nationalist pug-fuckers want to do. Keep the rest of the world in the stone age (so first you have to bomb them back into it).

I personally, am a genius, yes, but I do not seek to create a world order based on codified elitism based on race, or education, or point of view, like you statist hacks.

You say I'm faulty for insinuating there's a plot for a new world order, Then you posit that anything but the new world order necessitates massive population reduction.

You tried explaining before how "my ideas" necessitate massive population reduction. You failed in that thread. you want to try again?

 

[OrnotBitwise]

I personally, am a genius, yes, but I do not seek to create a world order based on codified elitism based on race, or education, or point of view, like you statist hacks.

You say I'm faulty for insinuating there's a plot for a new world order, Then you posit that anything but the new world order necessitates massive population reduction.

You tried explaining before how "my ideas" necessitate massive population reduction. You failed in that thread. you want to try again?

Gods, but you are predictable. You're going to have people really believing that you are my troll persona if you keep dropping your pants in public like this: I couldn't have asked for an easier target.

You are the one who insists that the only possible successor to the nation-state is some nightmarish, totalitarian regime. Let's work on that first, shall we? I mean, that is the entire basis for your infantile clinging to national sovereignty, is it not?

Do you deny that population density is rising far faster now than at any time in history?

Do you deny that increasing population density has always been accompanied, up to this time, by increasing centralization of government and political power?

Do you deny that multi-national corporations are even now, today, able to avoid the laws of any one nation more-or-less at will?

Your problem is that you have this obsession with The New World Order, which you conceive of as an inevitability should national sovereignty dissolve. The trouble is that you've watched too many episodes of The X-Files.