Grind on Immigration

T

Timshel

New member
Grind claims I have lied about his position on immigration. I don't know if this is some hair splitting bs, if he is trolling or if he has adjusted his views and hoping to quietly slink away from them. Originally, I was going to let it go and just accept that he had changed his view. But, he recently said I make up things about people, which I assumed he was alluding to this again.


Grind says it's fine to treat immigrants as indentured servants.


Ghost of Grind said:
if it's such a raw deal, they don't have to come here. Let them do as we say, or they can get the fuck out. We make the rules.
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Grind echoes the idiotic talking point of Republicans.


Ghost of Grind said:
Lets just hope you aren't equating legal and illegal immigrants. Though you obviously are.
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Why would a libertarian criminalize immigration? Keep reading to see him get pwned by water who as a socialist is more libertarian than grind.


In a thread where grind arrogantly asked for others to comment on his fake libertarian positions, IH8 nailed it with...


IHateGovernment said:
Abortion - Leave people alone


Gay Marriage - Leave people alone


Iraq War - Leave Iraqis alone


United Nations - Fuck it


Immigration - Mine the border


Drugs - Leave people alone


Taxes - Fuck you


Religion - Dumb


Stem Cell Research - Don't care but not on my dime


"Moral Issues" - Leave me alone


Abu Grabhib/Torture Allegations/Torture - Who cares?


Social Security - Hurry up and die


HealthCare - Hurry up and die


Mostly tongue and cheek here but I think I'm fairly accurate.
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Later grind basically agreed with the caricature of his immigration position, stating...


Ghost of Grind said:
Ih8 did a pretty decent job...regarding healthcare and ss, they don't have to die they just have to stop stealing my money.
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and taking no exception with IH8's understanding of his views on immigration.

BTW... This is why I found grind's claims about his prediction abilities. In all fairness, I thought Obama would lose simply due to his name. I think, I thought McCain would win for the Republicans. But I was not boasting about my genius, either.
 
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cawacko said:
What is the Libertarian position on immigration? (assuming there is only one)
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There is only one. Though some are confused by the fake paleolibertarian/neo confederate version. Open borders or a very liberalized immigration system with minimal regulation.

http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration

As water pointed out, either you accept the libertarian principle of property rights or you adhere to some collectivists view of property like grind and asshat.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
There is only one. Though some are confused by the fake paleolibertarian/neo confederate version. Open borders or a very liberalized immigration system with minimal regulation.

http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration

As water pointed out, either you accept the libertarian principle of property rights or you adhere to some collectivists view of property like grind and asshat.
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No, I'm a collectivist now, ignore what I said back then, I was a dumbass.
 
I actually think it would be wise to pull back on immigration somewhat, just because I think that assimilating too many immigrants at once can contribute disunity in society. I don't actually have anything against immigrants, it's just from a pragmatic perspective, I think America's divided enough as it is.
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
No, I'm a collectivist now, ignore what I said back then, I was a dumbass.
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Grind was a collectivist then and maybe still is. So are you siding with grind and asshat on immigration now?

No matter, your points are still valid. Grind's position does not or did not hold any water and is logically inconsistent. He argues that we may collectively infringe upon the individual rights of immigrants because "this is our home," "we pay taxes... that builds... the infrastructure" blah blah and all the other arguments fundamental to all justifications of government action and infringements on the rights of individuals. There is no reason his thoroughly collectivist argument is not just as applicable to gun laws or taxes.

I am okay with reasonable restrictions on immigration but the principle of individual rights is still the proper guide not his and ahz's fascist ideas of national rights.
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
I actually think it would be wise to pull back on immigration somewhat, just because I think that assimilating too many immigrants at once can contribute disunity in society. I don't actually have anything against immigrants, it's just from a pragmatic perspective, I think America's divided enough as it is.
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Sorry, that's just silly. Sounds like you want to give into the racist piles of crap.

High immigration is one of our greatest features and has given us numerous competitive advantages. Immigrants are assimilating just fine and as a percentage of the population are at the higher end but not the highest.
 
IWI Tavor said:
Man, I don't know who is more butt hurt at Grind, you or Zap.
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Did i post this in Off Topic by accident or was it moved?

I am not butt hurt at grind. He is butt hurt. He is mad that I called him on this, some other issues and that I yank his chain. Most of the time I am fucking with him, and I don't even really believe he is a fake libertarian. But I do seriously take exception with his position on this and his is not the libertarian one. While he and others claim I am the fake libertarian they cannot cite one example of where or how I differ from mainstream libertarianism.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Sorry, that's just silly. Sounds like you want to give into the racist piles of crap.

High immigration is one of our greatest features and has given us numerous competitive advantages. Immigrants are assimilating just fine and as a percentage of the population are at the higher end but not the highest.
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Giving in is my middle name.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Sorry, that's just silly. Sounds like you want to give into the racist piles of crap.

High immigration is one of our greatest features and has given us numerous competitive advantages. Immigrants are assimilating just fine and as a percentage of the population are at the higher end but not the highest.
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I actually disagree. I guess I may have a slight conservative view on the illegal immigration (or immigration) issue. As you guys know I live in California and the best place to understand issues with 'illegals' are hospitals which I work. Immigrants aren't assimilating fine because

1) Half that come to my hospital have no insurance and no social security

2) Half do not speak english and many actually go out of their way to say YOU NEED TO LEARN THEIR LANGUAGE

3) The United States caters to the immigrant population by having various languages as opposed to English which actually handicapps those who wish to migrate here as opposed to helping them assimilate, in addition, these handicapps make those who lack the linguistic skills to not want to learn english especially if they can get by in this country of not learning the language. These handicapps also effect those who are in ESL (some kids not all).

4) Based on the demographics certain jobs limit American citizens because of the language that is preferred to perform certain tasks. For example there was a Behavioral unit I wanted to transfer to but because I lack the bilingual skill of knowing Spanish regardless if I'm an advanced degree recipient, they'll choose someone who knows Spanish because of the demographics.
 
Sun Devil said:
I actually disagree. I guess I may have a slight conservative view on the illegal immigration (or immigration) issue. As you guys know I live in California and the best place to understand issues with 'illegals' are hospitals which I work. Immigrants aren't assimilating fine because

1) Half that come to my hospital have no insurance and no social security

2) Half do not speak english and many actually go out of their way to say YOU NEED TO LEARN THEIR LANGUAGE

3) The United States caters to the immigrant population by having various languages as opposed to English which actually handicapps those who wish to migrate here as opposed to helping them assimilate, in addition, these handicapps make those who lack the linguistic skills to not want to learn english especially if they can get by in this country of not learning the language. These handicapps also effect those who are in ESL (some kids not all).

4) Based on the demographics certain jobs limit American citizens because of the language that is preferred to perform certain tasks. For example there was a Behavioral unit I wanted to transfer to but because I lack the bilingual skill of knowing Spanish regardless if I'm an advanced degree recipient, they'll choose someone who knows Spanish because of the demographics.
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None of this is new. Do you think all past immigrants learned English in the first generation? They did not. Their kids did and assimilated. I would bet more first generation immigrants are learning English than ever before.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
None of this is new. Do you think all past immigrants learned English in the first generation? They did not. Their kids did and assimilated. I would bet more first generation immigrants are learning English than ever before.
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Right but the past is the past and today we cater more towards immigrants than we ever did before. The fact that we have entry-level positions that require applicants to speak a second language (primarily Spanish) let's us know that we are serving a growing demographic and the need to, at least in the sense, cater to this particular culture says a lot. I think the problem is really a double-edge sword. U.S Americans want to complain about "illegals" taking our jobs, capitalizing on tax-payer services, and not learning English. Yet what I find interesting is that none of the people who do complain actively protest, and the ones that do, do so on the basis that there are "too many Hispanics in the country and that the 'American' way of life is being lost by their illegal entry." Now of course people don't come out and say it but that is usually implied by online bloggers and people who complain about them. As far as the "they're taking our jobs" true immigrants who come from a third world to a first world are seizing the opportunity to make money they couldn't make back home. However, these people are getting paid illegally a low-wage and are risking much, all at their expense and for American citizens pleasure.

For those Americans that argue "they're taking our jobs" I challenge those Americans to outwardly protest those companies to hire Americans, force them to pay the federally mandated wage, but also keep their mouth shut when produce prices as well as other products go up. Or those undesirable jobs such as housekeeping, grass cutters, and dishwashers, and fruit pickers that Americans are complaining about. I challenge those Americans to protest. Let's not forget the welfare issue.....If illegals are taking all the jobs how do illegals have time to be on welfare? There are illegals who work 3-4 jobs and live in a house with 20 other people.

On the flipside I do see why Americans complain about illegal immigration.....

1) Our lax system

2) Catering to immigrants who are monolingual who do not speak English.

3) Requiring people to know a non-english language (most notably Spanish) as a job requirement.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Grind claims I have lied about his position on immigration. I don't know if this is some hair splitting bs, if he is trolling or if he has adjusted his views and hoping to quietly slink away from them. Originally, I was going to let it go and just accept that he had changed his view. But, he recently said I make up things about people, which I assumed he was alluding to this again.


Grind says it's fine to treat immigrants as indentured servants.





Grind echoes the idiotic talking point of Republicans.





Why would a libertarian criminalize immigration? Keep reading to see him get pwned by water who as a socialist is more libertarian than grind.


In a thread where grind arrogantly asked for others to comment on his fake libertarian positions, IH8 nailed it with...





Later grind basically agreed with the caricature of his immigration position, stating...





and taking no exception with IH8's understanding of his views on immigration.

BTW... This is why I found grind's claims about his prediction abilities. In all fairness, I thought Obama would lose simply due to his name. I think, I thought McCain would win for the Republicans. But I was not boasting about my genius, either.
Click to expand...

you did lie you idiot. you claimed I wanted immigrants killed.
 
also your post was moved because gravedigging posts and arguing to a specific poster isn't current events. most people with brains understand this intuitively.
 
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