Happy 200th birthday Marx!

Fentoine Lum said:
I always find it funny that folks have to fecklessly attempt to link Marx to Stalin, etc., but that's to be expected when one cannot defend american style capitalism on the merits of that system itself.
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What's to defend about the only economic system in human history based upon liberty?
 
Threedee said:
How much to piss on it?
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In introducing the Black Book, lead author Stephane Courtois, Director of Research at the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS) in Paris, offers the following rough breakdown of the numbers of people that communism killed:

USSR -- 20 million
China -- 65 million
Vietnam -- 1 million
North Korea -- 2 million
Cambodia -- 2 million
Eastern Europe -- 1 million
Latin America -- 150,000
Africa -- 1.7 million
Afghanistan -- 1.5 million
Communist movements, parties not in power -- 10,000
 
Havana Moon said:
Yet only last week you sent me a friendship request, I quite rightly rejected it. I have a propensity to do that with kunts.
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It's pretty sad when you have to resort to asking for friendship on an anonymous internet message board...
 
Threedee said:
What's to defend about the only economic system in human history based upon liberty?
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Yea the liberty of the rich and powerful. The track record of the Capitalist class on supporting egalitarian values of true liberty isn’t a very good one. In fact it’s pretty awful. Why do you think alternative economic challengers to capitalism arose in 19th Century Europe? It’s because the standard of living in Capitalist Europe outside the Capitalist class was terrible. Why do you think so many Europeans immigrated en mass to North America?

What do you think think was the primary cause of the American Revolution? It was economic. The original colonies in the 18th century had the highest standard of living in the world already and the British resented the hell out of it and bull shited themselves that the Colonies had achieved such wealth on the back of Great Britain when it was in fact the other way around. Great Britain had exploited great wealth off the backs of the Colonies then failed to share that wealth equitably with their subjects and creating resentment among the British Subjects that led to tyrannical treatment of the Colonies prosperity which was largely due to the absence of a powerful and permanent Capitalist class. In America Capitalism was more dynamic and merit based, in the northern colonies, and it was that success and Britain’s resentment of our success that was the primary cause of the American Revolution. In the southern colonies Capitalism was based on slavery and liberty was intended solely and exclusively for the slave owning Capitalist class. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement of Capitalism being founded on liberty. Maybe the liberty of the few to exploit or enslave the many for their own benefit.

The point of fact is until the American Revolution the Capitalist class in Europe were the only ones in Europe with political liberty outside of Britain and the European colonial powers repressed political liberty in their Colonies ruthlessly. So history and the facts don’t bear your comment out. Capitalism has never been based on political liberty. It took the American Revolution to force Capitalism to respect the rights and political liberty of individuals outside of the Capitalist class. That’s why it was Revolutionary! It’s also why we had to fight a Civil War to prohibit those liberty loving Southern Capitalist from exploiting human beings as slaves.

So though I’m a Capitalist please spare me such untrue and nonsense statements that Capitalism is based on liberty when it clearly isn’t. Capitalism is clearly a superior economic system when properly regulated. When not regulated by laws clearly delineating individual rights, liberty and freedom Capitalism is in fact an existential threat to the liberty of the vast majority of people as is clearly proven through the facts of its own history.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
Yea the liberty of the rich and powerful. The track record of the Capitalist class on supporting egalitarian values of true liberty isn’t a very good one. In fact it’s pretty awful. Why do you think alternative economic challengers to capitalism arose in 19th Century Europe? It’s because the standard of living in Capitalist Europe outside the Capitalist class was terrible. Why do you think so many Europeans immigrated en mass to North America?

What do you think think was the primary cause of the American Revolution? It was economic. The original colonies in the 18th century had the highest standard of living in the world already and the British resented the hell out of it and bull shited themselves that the Colonies had achieved such wealth on the back of Great Britain when it was in fact the other way around. Great Britain had exploited great wealth off the backs of the Colonies then failed to share that wealth equitably with their subjects and creating resentment among the British Subjects that led to tyrannical treatment of the Colonies prosperity which was largely due to the absence of a powerful and permanent Capitalist class. In America Capitalism was more dynamic and merit based, in the northern colonies, and it was that success and Britain’s resentment of our success that was the primary cause of the American Revolution. In the southern colonies Capitalism was based on slavery and liberty was intended solely and exclusively for the slave owning Capitalist class. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement of Capitalism being founded on liberty. Maybe the liberty of the few to exploit or enslave the many for their own benefit.

The point of fact is until the American Revolution the Capitalist class in Europe were the only ones in Europe with political liberty outside of Britain and the European colonial powers repressed political liberty in their Colonies ruthlessly. So history and the facts don’t bear your comment out. Capitalism has never been based on political liberty. It took the American Revolution to force Capitalism to respect the rights and political liberty of individuals outside of the Capitalist class. That’s why it was Revolutionary! It’s also why we had to fight a Civil War to prohibit those liberty loving Southern Capitalist from exploiting human beings as slaves.

So though I’m a Capitalist please spare me such untrue and nonsense statements that Capitalism is based on liberty when it clearly isn’t. Capitalism is clearly a superior economic system when properly regulated. When not regulated by laws clearly delineating individual rights, liberty and freedom Capitalism is in fact an existential threat to the liberty of the vast majority of people as is clearly proven through the facts of its own history.
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Adam Smith published in 1776, so, I'm not sure what capitalist class you are referring to from the 18th Century.

The fun thing about capitalism is that those with wealth don't have to support those beneath them. Now, in more traditional, aristocratic societies, that is obviously not the case.
 
Threedee said:
What's to defend about the only economic system in human history based upon liberty?
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Its mass murders? Its widescale theft? The way it starves people? The way it's fixing the world by heating the bugger up till people can't live in it? The way it's developed bombs to destroy us? Its encouragement of Nazism, racism and every other nasty ism? You got a wide choice, boyo, and not much competition. Hope they pay you, whatever!
 
iolo said:
Its mass murders? Its widescale theft? The way it starves people? The way it's fixing the world by heating the bugger up till people can't live in it? The way it's developed bombs to destroy us? Its encouragement of Nazism, racism and every other nasty ism? You got a wide choice, boyo, and not much competition. Hope they pay you, whatever!
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Killing fields, Marxism, Great Leap Forward, nonsense, USSR, a competing economic engine. Enjoy your Marxism, Taffy!
 
Threedee said:
Killing fields, Marxism, Great Leap Forward, nonsense, USSR, a competing economic engine. Enjoy your Marxism, Taffy!
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In your particular Reformatory they teach you the USSR was not part of capitalism, poppet? Relax - the eighteen armies you sent to murder the socialists did their work as intended.
 
iolo said:
In your particular Reformatory they teach you the USSR was not part of capitalism, poppet? Relax - the eighteen armies you sent to murder the socialists did their work as intended.
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Obviously, but, I assume you tie everything into capitalism, based upon your alternative definitions to reality.
 
I post this for the poorly educated who never read marx, i.e. the trumpsters, it's in cartoon form to help them get the concept


 
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Threedee said:
Obviously, but, I assume you tie everything into capitalism, based upon your alternative definitions to reality.
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Under State Capitalism, you see, kiddiewinkie, the working people do not take control. Instead, a new gang of bosses run the state as a big, and not very efficient, capitalist firm on the world market, obviously. Your masters keeping it from you, eh? That's another blessing of your system - its encouragement of lying and unreality. Enjoy!
 
iolo said:
Under State Capitalism, you see, kiddiewinkie, the working people do not take control. Instead, a new gang of bosses run the state as a big, and not very efficient, capitalist firm on the world market, obviously. Your masters keeping it from you, eh? That's another blessing of your system - its encouragement of lying and unreality. Enjoy!
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Every time you open your mouth to spout a Marxist platitude, you emit a lie or three. And the various communist states never operated on the world market, with China being the first to take a crack at it (quite successfully, thus far).
 
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