Hillary Announces Her Health Care Plan (Sorta)

Okay, so admit these two points:

1) It's not universal health care since it works through private insurance carriers and it still makes the individuals pay premiums to insurance carriers.

2) She doesn't force anyone to adopt the new system. In fact, she says explicitly that she won't.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Okay, so admit these two points:

1) It's not universal health care since it works through private insurance carriers and it still makes the individuals pay premiums to insurance carriers.

2) She doesn't force anyone to adopt the new system. In fact, she says explicitly that she won't.
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If I don't want to pay anything for my own personal insurance and instead just opt to pay for healthcare when I need it, will I be free not to?
 
Superfreak said:
What about it exactly do you like? (and yes, I know she has not released all details yet)
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Tax credits to help people pay for their medical insurance, the fact that nobody's forced into anything, and it doesn't cost the government billions of dollars. Also, you don't lose your insurance when you lose your job.

Aren't you guys always for lowering taxes?
 
ib1yysguy said:
And if you two morons actually read it, she doesn't FORCE anyone to buy insurance.
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Oh, of course she is not forcing anyone. She is only "requiring" and "mandating" it through some tax schemes or a fuzzy plan to be worked out later.

The New York senator said her plan would require every American to purchase insurance, either through their jobs or through a program modeled on Medicare or the federal employee health plan. Businesses would be required to offer insurance or contribute to a pool that would expand coverage. Individuals and small businesses would be offered tax credits to make insurance more affordable.

...

The centerpiece of Clinton's latest effort is the so-called "individual mandate," requiring everyone to have health insurance just as most states require drivers to purchase auto insurance. Such a mandate has detractors at both ends of the political spectrum, and questions abound over how it would be enforced.

"Perhaps more than anybody else I know just how hard this fight will be," said the New York senator.

Clinton adviser Laurie Rubiner said the mandate could be enforced in a number of ways, such as denying certain tax deduction to those who refused to buy insurance. But she stressed that a specific mechanism would be worked out once the plan was passed.
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Thorn said:
I read the plan, or what's available for public consumption at any rate. The government is not paying for the insurance; the whole single-payer issue is tabled.. The proposal makes it necessary that such insurance should be available, however.
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Wrong. She stated quite clearly on her site she is going to give tax breaks/credits to individuals and small businesses to help with the "cost" of the plans.

Her plan needs to address how it will address the rising COSTS of healthcare. At this point, she has not done so. Perhaps it will be in the details yet to be released.

I disagree strongly with the insurance companies being forced to insure anyone, regardless of pre-existing conditions. Let her tack those people onto the governments plan. Make them accountable.
 
TheDanold said:
If I don't want to pay anything for my own personal insurance and instead just opt to pay for healthcare when I need it, will I be free not to?
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It sure looks that way. Read what she wrote:

"If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums."

CAN, Can, can. You can keep your insurance, you can opt into the system, or you could do nothing.
 
You have a link there String? I'd like to read what article you got that from, because I'm getting a totally different impression from reading her material.
 
ib1yysguy said:
It sure looks that way. Read what she wrote:

"If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums."

CAN, Can, can. You can keep your insurance, you can opt into the system, or you could do nothing.
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Actually, it does not give you the option to refuse coverage. Again, this might be clarified when the full details are released. CNBC had a blurb on her plan today and stated that her plan required all americans to have health insurance. (take with a grain of salt, because that was their interpretation of what she said... perhaps it will clear up once she releases all the details)
 
ib1yysguy said:
It sure looks that way. Read what she wrote:

"If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums."

CAN, Can, can. You can keep your insurance, you can opt into the system, or you could do nothing.
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No, it does not look that way.

The centerpiece of Clinton's latest effort is the so-called "individual mandate," requiring everyone to have health insurance just as most states require drivers to purchase auto insurance.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Tax credits to help people pay for their medical insurance, the fact that nobody's forced into anything, and it doesn't cost the government billions of dollars. Also, you don't lose your insurance when you lose your job.

Aren't you guys always for lowering taxes?
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How exactly is this lowering taxes? While it may lower taxes for some, the net result HAS to be that taxes are raised over all. OR other programs have to be cut to compensate for the money spent on this.

Why not address the COSTS of healthcare and try to get them lower before simply running out and saying "we'll pay for everyone!"
 
Um, it's lowering taxes. Any reduction in taxes causes the same effect, and now you're suddenly against this particular reduction in taxes because it'll make healthcare more affordable? What the hell?

And we'll probably have to wait to see how she addresses the cost issue.
 
This is why the healthcare industry is dumping so much money into her campaign. If this passes you are going to see costs go way up.

And anybody that is not a Demo Zombie knows full well their cost estimates are far below reality.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Government cost $110 billion/year.

Cost of Iraq, about 70. Then she has projected "$56 billion in savings through computerized record keeping, reducing the price of prescription drugs and cutting Medicare overpayments to hospitals and CEOs."

Here's a very detailed rundown:
http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/164799.html?imw=Y
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Yeah right. You are a moron if you buy this nonsense.

We are going to be in Iraq forever (or at least for a generation). Clinton will not change that. So what relevance does it have?
 
Being in Iraq and paying for a full-scale anti insurgency are two different things. It's not going to cost 70 billion/year forever.

On top of that, she'll let the Bush tax breaks expire for people making $250,000/year, make a portion of insurance contributions by employers for the best health care plans taxable income. She'll streamline Medicare to cut overpayments, improve record keeping, and come up with $50+ billion that way.

It seems like that would all be just about enough to cover most of the cost, and then we'd wind up with almost everyone being covered.

Considering the biggest evil in society is taxes to you Libertarians, I can see why you'd dislike it. The rest of us of course see it as a matter of saving lives and keeping people from losing their homes to pay for necessary medical treatment.
 
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