How does it feel to now be a taxpayer?

Hey Rootbeer... No one is questioning the concept of each person providing some form of health care insurance for themselves. As Romney makes the point, that is a RESPONSIBLE position to have, and nothing Republicans have done or said, negates that point. If the deal is, we all have to provide our own coverage, or pay a tax to the government to provide it for us, that's FINE with us! We've never had a problem with that, aside from the fact that our government shouldn't have the power to tell us what we can or can't purchase.

The issue is the people who aren't going to be able to afford complying with the mandate. You seem to want something where the rich folk pay for the health care coverage on everyone else, and the court did not find that to be constitutional. If the idea is that everyone is going to pay for their own health care, then that's what we need to do, and stop beating around the bush. Unless you are living in a cardboard box with no fiscal means of support, you should have to pay something to someone for your health care coverage. You can't pass a law that says everyone is MANDATED to do this, THEN start eliminating people who have to comply!
 
Dixie said:
... No one is questioning the concept of each person providing some form of health care insurance for themselves.
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They aren't?

Dixie said:
As Romney makes the point, that is a RESPONSIBLE position to have, and nothing Republicans have done or said, negates that point.
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Really? You sure?

Dixie said:
If the deal is, we all have to provide our own coverage, or pay a tax to the government to provide it for us, that's FINE with us! We've never had a problem with that, aside from the fact that our government shouldn't have the power to tell us what we can or can't purchase.
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So you do have an issue with it, don't you? Why claim you haven't?

Dixie said:
The issue is the people who aren't going to be able to afford complying with the mandate.
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It is? Explain.

Dixie said:
You seem to want something where the rich folk pay for the health care coverage on everyone else, and the court did not find that to be constitutional.
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I do? When did I say that?

Explain the second part of your sentence - with a citation, please. Thanks.


Dixie said:
If the idea is that everyone is going to pay for their own health care, then that's what we need to do, and stop beating around the bush. Unless you are living in a cardboard box with no fiscal means of support, you should have to pay something to someone for your health care coverage. You can't pass a law that says everyone is MANDATED to do this, THEN start eliminating people who have to comply!
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Who said otherwise?
 
So you are unable to answer my questions or provide evidence of the claims you made?
 
Dixie said:
THEN, when that is passed, decide to spend the money on something totally different.
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Congress and the states are already doing that, Dicksee. Here in Florida, Gov. Binks has taken education money, lottery money, healthcare money and Medicaid money and spent it on worthless incentives and raises for his cronies, proving once and for all Republicans don't give a shit about the middle class and poor.

Dixie said:
IF you want Obamacare, you will have to pass a specific tax increase to fund it. Congress has the power and authority to do that, the SCOTUS ruled that as well.
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Take the fucking blinders off! We've already explained to you that Obamacare is already funded, how it will be funded, and why it's funded. The fact that you can't believe that is your problem, nobody elses.

Dixie said:
Single payer is dead
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Tell that to the folks on Medicare and VA, both highly efficient systems and far better than for-profit healthcare.

ekg...meet Dixie, aka Dicksee because I keep thinking Dixie's a Chick. Kinda like a dumber lilMike, if that's possible. :)
 
Howey said:
Congress and the states are already doing that, Dicksee. Here in Florida, Gov. Binks has taken education money, lottery money, healthcare money and Medicaid money and spent it on worthless incentives and raises for his cronies, proving once and for all Republicans don't give a shit about the middle class and poor.
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No, the Florida governor did no such thing, governors don't have that power, sorry. Now... you have constructed, in your liberally retarded mind, that this is what essentially happened, but if you really dig deep into it, you will find that the Florida legislature had practically EVERYTHING to do with this, and not the governor. Whether it is state or federal, Congress can't tell you they are charging you tax for "X" and then use the money to fund "Y" ...THAT IS FRAUD!

Take the fucking blinders off! We've already explained to you that Obamacare is already funded, how it will be funded, and why it's funded. The fact that you can't believe that is your problem, nobody elses.
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No, YOU need to take the blinders off, because Congress certainly hasn't appropriated the CBO-estimated $10 trillion this program will cost... THAT hasn't happened yet. They planned to use the Medicare trust fund to roll this all out, but that didn't fly with SCOTUS... so there is no present way to fund the program. Furthermore, a rather large chunk of cost, not included in the CBOs estimate above, was the mandates they said the states would have to pay, which the court rejected. That TOO has to be paid for now, through some kind of Congressional tax legislation, because the courts said you can't steal it from someplace else.

Tell that to the folks on Medicare and VA, both highly efficient systems and far better than for-profit healthcare.
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This is too fucking hilarious to even comment on. Have you visited the VA lately? Have you known of anyone who depends solely on Medicare? They are certainly not lauding their praises for what a great and wonderful program they have!
 
Dixie said:
No, the Florida governor did no such thing, governors don't have that power, sorry.
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Scott (and other governors) redirect Foreclosure Fraud funds:

In Florida, one of the biggest recipients of settlement funds, Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL) got six members of Congress on a letter, including DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Republican Richard Nugent, to demand that Pam Bondi and Rick Scott not divert any of the funds to the budget.
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Scott diverts public education funds.

That sound is Gov. Scott's extremist allies in the Legislature once again working to take away badly needed funds from Florida's public schools. Gymnasiums, cafeterias, and most importantly, our children's classrooms need ongoing repairs and maintenance, yet some legislative leaders want to take tens of millions designated for building and maintenance for our public schools and divert them to privately owned charter schools
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Scott diverts more school funds.
The answers came in a report titled “Demystifying School Funding.” It comes in an era when funding for the public schools is being cut every year.

It’s more important then ever that the public understands how funding for public schools is being conducted.

Some of the criticisms of the past are no longer relevant.

Much of the blame for funding difficulties must be placed at the state level.
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Dixie said:
THAT IS FRAUD!
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Yes, it is, isn't it?

Dixie said:
No, YOU need to take the blinders off, because Congress certainly hasn't appropriated the CBO-estimated $10 trillion this program will cost...
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Would you kindly take your mouth off Hannity's dick? Here's the thing, Dicksee. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...romney-says-obamacare-adds-trillions-deficit/There's a new sheriff in town: Howey. I use sources and truth to bring out the idiocy of sheeple like you.

Still, we find no factual basis for Romney’s claim that the law "adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt." We rate his statement False.
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Dixie said:
This is too fucking hilarious to even comment on. Have you visited the VA lately? Have you known of anyone who depends solely on Medicare? They are certainly not lauding their praises for what a great and wonderful program they have!
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Actually, yes I have! I'm a disabled veteran. I get 100% of my healthcare from the VA, thankyouveryfuckingmuch. I'm also on Medicare, thankyouveryfuckingmuch.

Last year, I spent 10 days in the hospital. Between the two of them, I came out owing not one red cent. Tell that to your insurance company buddies.

Oh. And the VA? It's been recognized as the best care anywhere.
Yet here's a curious fact that few conservatives or liberals know. Who do you think receives higher-quality health care. Medicare patients who are free to pick their own doctors and specialists? Or aging veterans stuck in those presumably filthy VA hospitals with their antiquated equipment, uncaring administrators, and incompetent staff? An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare. On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be "significantly better."

Here's another curious fact. The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients. In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care.
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So...to quote my friend ekg..."Eat my shit!"

or something like that...
 
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Dixie said:
There is nothing "outlandish" about what I have stated, and it certainly doesn't contradict anything others have said, or Romney, for that matter.

The SCOTUS ruled that ACA couldn't use the $600 billion it sought from Medicare, because Congress does not have such authority under the commerce clause. Now that $600 billion in funding, was completely separate and unrelated to the mandate or penalty proposed.

You argument is the equivalent of saying: The 1st Amendment means black people and minorities can say whatever they want and everyone else has to shut up and listen! That's CLEARLY NOT what the 1st Amendment says or means... but since you interpret the smallest of portions and apply it to your myopic example, that's how you view it. The whole reason the mandate and penalty were deemed TAX, is because Congress does not have the constitutional authority to regulate health care under the commerce clause.
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Uh, my only argument has been that the Supreme Court did not say anything in the ACA Was a tax other than the penalty for not buying insurance.
 
Jarod said:
Uh, my only argument has been that the Supreme Court did not say anything in the ACA Was a tax other than the penalty for not buying insurance.
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Yes, they did. If you don't read that, you are misreading it. That's all I can say!

They found Congress has no authority to do this under the commerce clause... not the mandate... not the penalty... not the general funding for the program! Not a fucking BIT of it can be done using the commerce clause, the states can't be compelled to pay for it with their Medicare funds, and the Feds can't steal money from Medicare to pay for this... which essentially means, the ONLY way it can constitutionally exist, is as a tax pursuant to Congress' ability to tax.
 
Jarod said:
Uh, my only argument has been that the Supreme Court did not say anything in the ACA Was a tax other than the penalty for not buying insurance.
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But then you never did answer how this bill is going to be funded.
I wonder why that is?
NO, REALLY; I do wonder why.
 
Howey said:
He may not have; but I did.
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No you didn't. You are claiming it has already been funded.

SCOTUS rejected your brainstorm to raid Medicare... said you didn't have the constitutional authority to do that.

SCOTUS rejected your plan to have the states cover much of the cost with their Medicare funds... said you couldn't do that either.

SCOTUS upheld the mandate and penalty as a tax... you can do that, but that doesn't cover the cost to implement the bill.

At this point, the only funding you have, is the $120 billion you stole from the stimulus... and that ain't gonna be enough.

In the very BEST case scenario... Obama wins re-election and Republicans are unable to take the Senate. Upon convening in January, the House can still vote to rescind the ACA because it has been deemed a tax, and as such, did not have the appropriate support from Congress. Now, the Senate could reject that, or the president could veto it... and we might have to go back to SCOTUS to define Congressional power to tax, but that's a long way down the road.

This thing is DEAD. Because what is going to happen in November, isn't even going to be CLOSE to the 'best case scenario' presented.
 
\\\()/// said:
Is this the GOP's intention?

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That's exactly it. When asked what he would do, specifically, to insure the 30 million uninsured people he replied, "that's not the issue." He couldn't be any more clear. The Repubs don't give a damn. It's as simple as that.
 
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