How much has Obamacare saved the American people?

Oneuli said:
The deficit as about half the size, when Obama was leaving office, as when he took office.
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There are two ways to look at the U.S. budget deficit when determining which president has run the largest deficit. The first is to look at each president's term or terms in office, total the deficits run over the course of their four or eight years, and base your conclusions on those numbers. According to this method, Barack Obama's budget deficit was $6.69 trillion over his eight years, making him the president with the largest budget deficit.

The laws governing the federal fiscal year are the reason a second way to look at budget deficits is on a year-by-year basis. In years when a new president is elected, there are two plans at work: the old plan laid out by the previous administration and the new plan brought in by the new president. The single-largest budget deficit in U.S. history happened during such a year; the 2009 fiscal year clocked a $1.412 trillion deficit. For the first third of that year, President George W. Bush was in office, while for the last eight months, Barack Obama took the White House.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/030515/which-united-states-presidents-have-run-largest-budget-deficits.asp
 
Superfreak said:
Obamacare went into effect in October of 2013. So you are using incorrect start point. Which is what I figured you were doing.
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Yes and no. Plans were available in Jan '14. But there were a few cost saving measures enacted to all policies in '11
 
Oneuli said:
Yes.
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Is that so?

Obama boasts that he brought the budget deficit down by two-thirds from the towering heights of $1.4 trillion in 2009 and 2010. But the main reason why borrowing fell happens to be the 2011 Budget Control Act (BCA), which established tight budget caps and a sequester process of automatic, across-the-board spending cuts.

It slammed the brakes on spending and reversed the budget blowout of Obama's first two years in office.



https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/budget-control-act-sequester-killed-deficit/


:thinking:
 
Oneuli said:
Obamacare became law in March 2010. Different parts of it went into effect at different periods after that. For example, the provision allowing adult children under age 26 to get on their parents' insurance started to be rolled out immediately, and the deadline for insurers to implement it was September 23, 2010.

If you'd prefer me to use some incorrect starting point, just let me know which wrong date you'd prefer.
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Most were enacted in '11..including the dependent children.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/re...-act/history-timeline-affordable-care-act-aca
 
Legion said:
There are two ways to look at the U.S. budget deficit when determining which president has run the largest deficit. The first is to look at each president's term or terms in office, total the deficits run over the course of their four or eight years, and base your conclusions on those numbers. According to this method, Barack Obama's budget deficit was $6.69 trillion over his eight years, making him the president with the largest budget deficit.
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That's not a method I've ever seen used before, but I guess when all the standard analyses contradict one's arguments, it's time to think waaay outside the box. Of course that method is idiotic, since it will weight the rankings drastically to later periods of time. It would be a bit like judging a president's economy by the total GDP earned on his watch. It's something you can do, if you'd like (and if you don't mind looking like a cretin). It's mathematically legitimate. But it isn't a sensible way to analyze the matter.
 
Legion said:
Yours interest me. Merriam-Webster says, "a question of fact hinges on evidence."
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Like I said, feel free to dig for whatever word game you'd like to play. I'm using the word consistent with the first definition, but if you're tired of getting your ass kicked by me on that basis, go ahead and reach for another definition.
 
Here are Obama’s desired alternative fiscal policies to avoid the fiscal cliff in order of their effect on the five-year budget as estimated by the CBO:

1. Preserve Bush tax cuts and other tax provisions for everyone except the top 2 percent: Raises the five-year deficit by $2.0 trillion.

2. Drop the fiscal-cliff sequestration of spending and expand discretionary spending by the rate of inflation: Raises the five-year deficit by another trillion dollars.

3. Raise the tax rate on the top 2 percent: Lowers the five-year deficit by $300 billion.

4. Extend enhanced unemployment benefits: Raises the five-year deficit by $200 billion.

5. Do not cut Medicare payment rates to physicians: Raises the five-year deficit by some $100.

Four of the five fiscal policies on Obama’s wish list raised the deficit. Only one – the vaunted tax on the rich on which he based his campaign – lowered the deficit, by $300 billion ($60 billion per year).


https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/12/25/president-obamas-legacy-20-trillion-in-deficits-for-2016-victor/#60054ff25798
 
Cypress said:
Nicely done.

From the human perspective, in my opinion, the most important contribution of Obamacare was to ensure legally that no one could ever be turned down for health insurance, regardless of pre-existing conditions - and even if one had a pre-existing condition, they would not be financially penalized for it. It is hard to believe that we used to be the only developed country on the planet in which there were serious doubts, questions, and financial obstacles in being able to realistically get health insurance - under the old system Republicans preferred.

From the policy perspective, the most progressive contribution of Obamacare was the expansion of Medicaid. Which is really just a first step, hopefully, towards universal single payer health care. Even Red States are now begging for the Obamacare Medicaid expansion, as the election on November 7 demonstrated.
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As one who has been in the individual market for almost 40 years, I've seen the various changes to health insurance laws. Before ACA, you had to be covered for pre existing conditions, PROVIDED that you didn't have a lapse in coverage of more than 30 days.


BUT...employers were firing employees who suddenly became gravely ill, and started skewing their group plan rates.

So yes...the pre existing condition clause saved many lives.
 
Legion said:
It doesn't seem to in your case.
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Keep in mind that I'm so much above you that from your perspective, any progress by me would be indiscernible. It would be like a tone-deaf person listening to two recordings of a professional singer several years apart, and being unable to note improvement between the two.
 
Oneuli said:
As you now know, spending increased at a very low rate in the Obama years -- about 1/5 the average rate of the preceding half century. Now that you know that your previous assumption about spending rising unusually fast was wildly incorrect, has it altered any of your analysis? Of course not -- because you don't actually do analysis. Unlike me, you aren't looking to the data to decide what to conclude about the world. Rather, you're deciding what you'd like to be true, and then simply asserting that it is. So, when you find out you're dead wrong, it makes no difference to you at all.
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The thread premise was how much Obamacare has saved the American people. If it has not reduced costs; costs have increased. If the plan did not do what was promised, inferring that we have saved money based on some erroneous ASSumption as to what MAY have happened without Obama care is a waste of bandwidth.

FACT: the costs went up. Very high in many cases.

FACT: subsidized plans are COSTING the American taxpayers billions.

FACT: you could not keep your doctor

FACT: you could not keep your plan.

FACT: Jonathan Gruber thinks you're a moron; he is right.

Jonathan Gruber Videos: Oneuli is "Too Stupid to Understand" Obamacare
 
Legion said:
Here are Obama’s desired alternative fiscal policies to avoid the fiscal cliff in order of their effect on the five-year budget as estimated by the CBO:

1. Preserve Bush tax cuts and other tax provisions for everyone except the top 2 percent: Raises the five-year deficit by $2.0 trillion.

2. Drop the fiscal-cliff sequestration of spending and expand discretionary spending by the rate of inflation: Raises the five-year deficit by another trillion dollars.

3. Raise the tax rate on the top 2 percent: Lowers the five-year deficit by $300 billion.

4. Extend enhanced unemployment benefits: Raises the five-year deficit by $200 billion.

5. Do not cut Medicare payment rates to physicians: Raises the five-year deficit by some $100.

Four of the five fiscal policies on Obama’s wish list raised the deficit. Only one – the vaunted tax on the rich on which he based his campaign – lowered the deficit, by $300 billion ($60 billion per year).


https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/12/25/president-obamas-legacy-20-trillion-in-deficits-for-2016-victor/#60054ff25798
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Relative to what the Republicans wanted (extending all Bush tax cuts), one and three both lower the deficit considerably. So, isn't it a good thing we didn't have a Reagan/Bush/Trump-style president in power at the time? Imagine how much harm he'd have done! Or don't imagine.... just look around at what's happening now.
 
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