Hugo Chavez: Glaring example of Socialist FAIL!

Thing1 said:
The rewrite of history on Iraq is crazy stuff. I remember 2002 & 2003. I remember being called a traitor for opposing the war, and a terrorist sympathizer. I remember Republicans cackling in their giddy Republican way when Saddam's statue fell and a codpiece-enhanced GW made his "Mission Accomplished" speech, and being ridiculed because Democrats were on the "wrong side of history" w/ Iraq.

Now, there just isn't enough credit to go around. I have heard bravo say that Clinton actually started the war (when he's not saying that it only lasted 3 weeks), and that all Bush did was finish it, and only when Congressional Democrats forced him to. Crazy stuff.
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Yes that all brings about a lot of memories, especially the statue falling. On netscape at the time, we had a rate bush board and a war on terror board. The iraq war board never took off, so the argument was confined to mostly those two boards on there, and they were the highest-trafficked boards on netscape. It was the same crap there.

I personally don't feel that high-profile Democrats did the right thing, your Edwards, Kerry, Clinton, they were focused on Presidential politics and they played the wrong card. Instead of just doing what they thought was right. Maybe Hillary thought it was right, but Kerry didn't. He made a political vote, so did Edwards. But the fact is that more Democrats voted against the resolution than voted for it. I do think it was Bush's war. I think it's perhaps the one war we wouldn't have gotten into if a Dem had been President. But for the most part I do believe that R's and D's are pretty close in foreign policy. Although how Obama is redefining that as he redefines war, is yet to be fully understood, I think.
 
Thing1 said:
The rewrite of history on Iraq is crazy stuff. I remember 2002 & 2003. I remember being called a traitor for opposing the war, and a terrorist sympathizer. I remember Republicans cackling in their giddy Republican way when Saddam's statue fell and a codpiece-enhanced GW made his "Mission Accomplished" speech, and being ridiculed because Democrats were on the "wrong side of history" w/ Iraq.

Now, there just isn't enough credit to go around. I have heard bravo say that Clinton actually started the war (when he's not saying that it only lasted 3 weeks), and that all Bush did was finish it, and only when Congressional Democrats forced him to. Crazy stuff.
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REALLY CRAZY
 
Darla said:
Yes that all brings about a lot of memories, especially the statue falling. On netscape at the time, we had a rate bush board and a war on terror board. The iraq war board never took off, so the argument was confined to mostly those two boards on there, and they were the highest-trafficked boards on netscape. It was the same crap there.

I personally don't feel that high-profile Democrats did the right thing, your Edwards, Kerry, Clinton, they were focused on Presidential politics and they played the wrong card. Instead of just doing what they thought was right. Maybe Hillary thought it was right, but Kerry didn't. He made a political vote, so did Edwards. But the fact is that more Democrats voted against the resolution than voted for it. I do think it was Bush's war. I think it's perhaps the one war we wouldn't have gotten into if a Dem had been President. But for the most part I do believe that R's and D's are pretty close in foreign policy. Although how Obama is redefining that as he redefines war, is yet to be fully understood, I think.
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I hear thee, and I do agree for the most part. I remember the vote itself - it was really framed around patriotism, and giving Bush a strong hand in forcing Saddam's hand, but everyone knew what he was going to do w/ it. The votes of Kerry, Edwards, et al. were pretty cowardly.

I still shake my head when I think about Edwards. I thought his whole "2 Americas" thing was great and spot on, but man, what a mess of a human being.
 
Thing1 said:
I hear thee, and I do agree for the most part. I remember the vote itself - it was really framed around patriotism, and giving Bush a strong hand in forcing Saddam's hand, but everyone knew what he was going to do w/ it. The votes of Kerry, Edwards, et al. were pretty cowardly.

I still shake my head when I think about Edwards. I thought his whole "2 Americas" thing was great and spot on, but man, what a mess of a human being.
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I know, it breaks my heart when I think back to Elizabeth Edwards on the earlier days of Countdown and how wonderful and real she was. And how committed to bringing health care to everyone. And now she is dead and he ruined himself. I still can't believe it's so many years ago already.
 
Rana said:
REALLY CRAZY
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Rana do you remember right before the invasion, it was the week of I believe, everyone went so nuts? And Tex said he was going to IA everyone who criticized the President now that we were at war? And the righties were just going nuts all over the place, making threats about beating up flag burners. They were all going to be out looking for all those hippies burning flags! God that was a crazy time.
 
Darla said:
Rana do you remember right before the invasion, it was the week of I believe, everyone went so nuts? And Tex said he was going to IA everyone who criticized the President now that we were at war? And the righties were just going nuts all over the place, making threats about beating up flag burners. They were all going to be out looking for all those hippies burning flags! God that was a crazy time.
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It was unbelievable! We were traitors, and just wait, we would be sorry, Bush was going to bring stability to the ME and we would choke on his success! It wasn't only the board, it was my family, telling me I was in LaLa land. Horrible times!

Standing with my ign downtown was the worst. The things people said to our group of little old ladies was horrible!
 
Rana said:
It was unbelievable! We were traitors, and just wait, we would be sorry, Bush was going to bring stability to the ME and we would choke on his success! It wasn't only the board, it was my family, telling me I was in LaLa land. Horrible times!

Standing with my ign downtown was the worst. The things people said to our group of little old ladies was horrible!
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OH did you do that? I know, that is a great way to find out what the dregs of society have in their "minds" huh?
 
Oh I remember Bushmom posting that Bush's ratings would go up because we're going to invade Iraq, win fast, and the price of gas was going to come plummeting down! I never forgot that one. Then she bragged about her "big assed SUV' and I told her, well it's been my experience that people with big stuff have something big to put in it! She didn't like that. I never let her live down that prediction either, she hated me.
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
So where is the proof of his personal wealth and how it was accumulated?

I don't care how rich he is, but if he made it through graft that's a problem.
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Let's stop being obtuse. His life history is outlined on Wikipedia, he never held a "regular" job. He went straight from being in the military, to being in politics. He's like Obama, sans the military service. So there is no evidence his fortune could have come from a legitimate capitalist business, since he was never associated with one. He did have a fortune, I don't care who reported what on a blog. Reuters and nearly every major news outlet, isn't reporting this based on speculation of a blogger. Most legitimate news outlets are reporting a billion dollars or so, but some have estimated his holdings to be closer to $6 billion. In either event, it is more than the average person, and it's in a system which promises wealth equality. That's my beef, that's what I am asking you Neo-Socialists to explain, and so far, no one has.

Now, we have heard a plethora of excuses for Chavez and his wealth; Like the assertion he wasn't REALLY a Socialist... or he "practiced" Socialism by enforcing Socialist policies on his people as he accumulated great wealth. We're shown the great and wonderful "improvements" in the lives of the common people, as a result of the oil industry, but we can't compare this with the improvement which may have been realized under a free market capitalist system. One thing is for certain, Chavez had considerably more wealth than the average Venezuelan, and he never worked a regular job. This completely contradicts every principle of Socialism.
 
Darla said:
Oh I remember Bushmom posting that Bush's ratings would go up because we're going to invade Iraq, win fast, and the price of gas was going to come plummeting down! I never forgot that one. Then she bragged about her "big assed SUV' and I told her, well it's been my experience that people with big stuff have something big to put in it! She didn't like that. I never let her live down that prediction either, she hated me.
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She wasn't too fond of me, either, imagine that!
 
Darla said:
Rana do you remember right before the invasion, it was the week of I believe, everyone went so nuts? And Tex said he was going to IA everyone who criticized the President now that we were at war? And the righties were just going nuts all over the place, making threats about beating up flag burners. They were all going to be out looking for all those hippies burning flags! God that was a crazy time.
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I was on the Iraq board at that time and it was just like you said. We were traitors, we should be arrested, we didn't support the troops, we had a duty to support the president during a war etc. It was a real eye-opener into the worst of human nature. I've wondered whether those hacks ever look back and think they were wrong. Probably not.
 
Rana said:
It was unbelievable! We were traitors, and just wait, we would be sorry, Bush was going to bring stability to the ME and we would choke on his success! It wasn't only the board, it was my family, telling me I was in LaLa land. Horrible times!

Standing with my ign downtown was the worst. The things people said to our group of little old ladies was horrible!
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Seeing that side of so-called normal Americans was a real shocker.
 
blackascoal said:
Your ignorance of socialism is astounding given that humans have invented books. You appear to have never read one on the subject.

No, socialism does not mean nor imply that everybody is the same or acquires the same.

But given that fact does not sit well with meme .. you can believe whatever ignorance makes you feel special.
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Oh, but that is at the root of Socialism, the promise of wealth equality for all. This is why Socialists are protesting Capitalism in America and the 1%, because it's supposedly "unfair" to have so much wealth controlled by such a small number. Value extraction... workers compensation for labor in relation to profit... everyone in society shares the profits equally, because that is more "fair" to all.

What we see in Chavez and Socialism in Venezuela, is a man who attained a fortune and never worked for it. When Capitalists do this, they end up in prison. Most Capitalist fortunes are earned through legitimate free market transaction, where consumers have a need provided for and a demand met by the Capitalist. In a Socialist system, the ruler (Chavez) can simply steal whatever fortune they please.
 
Darla said:
Oh I remember Bushmom posting that Bush's ratings would go up because we're going to invade Iraq, win fast, and the price of gas was going to come plummeting down! I never forgot that one. Then she bragged about her "big assed SUV' and I told her, well it's been my experience that people with big stuff have something big to put in it! She didn't like that. I never let her live down that prediction either, she hated me.
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All those "patriotic" screen names, it was sickening. Like you couldn't be a patriot without a flag pin, a flag outside your house, all kinds of signs, ribbons and bumper stickers.

But in a way it's sweet justice to see how wrong they all were.
 
Darla said:
Rana do you remember right before the invasion, it was the week of I believe, everyone went so nuts? And Tex said he was going to IA everyone who criticized the President now that we were at war? And the righties were just going nuts all over the place, making threats about beating up flag burners. They were all going to be out looking for all those hippies burning flags! God that was a crazy time.
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You're so full of shit.
No one was going to go out and run around. looking to beat up flag burners.

But then; we do have it on good authority, "That you will lie about all things, great and small".
 
Thing1 said:
Iraq will always be Bush's war, period. Congress passed a resolution authorizing the use of force if necessary. Without Bush's decision, absolutely nothing happens. There is nothing about that resolution that forced his hand, or that mandated action.

The resolution ALLOWED him to use force, but neither recommended it or compelled it. As Bush has always said, he was the decider. He made the decision, and it was not a wise one.
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SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--
  1. defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq ; and
  2. enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq .

The War Resolution would not have been introduced if war was not deemed necessary to accomplish US goals in the first place....
what do you think "continuing threat posed by Iraq" means........so your childish playing with the words
is bullshit from the start.....what other possible reason would a vote to authorize war be necessary....Bush would not have askrd for authorization if that was not
understood to be the plan in the first place....do you seriously think the Democrats were that stupid to vote for it and not know exactly what they were voting for.....
The decision to use military force was a given,(and accusation made by pinheads a thousand times since) only the authorization was needed...............and given.

Without the passage of the resolution, absolutely nothing happens.


The sequence is 1,2,3,4....not 1,2,4,3
 
christiefan915 said:
I was on the Iraq board at that time and it was just like you said. We were traitors, we should be arrested, we didn't support the troops, we had a duty to support the president during a war etc. It was a real eye-opener into the worst of human nature. I've wondered whether those hacks ever look back and think they were wrong. Probably not.
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They even suggested camps for us!
 
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