I (gulp) agree with Alan West!

Mott the Hoople said:
Don't put words in my mouth. When was the last time you went in harms way to serve your country? Don't be a hypocrite. These were bad guys trying to kill these young men and who may damned well have killed or hurt their buddies. If you can't understand their feelings then you are in lala land if you want to make criminals out of these people. Where is the sense of proportionality here?
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Look, you and I agree probably 99% of the time and I am with you in that I don't want these men severely punished either, so let's not let one disagreement ruin our ability to discuss this rationally.

That said, the bottom line is that what those men did was wrong. Wrong according to the UCMJ or whatever rules they were supposed to be following, ETHICALLY wrong, MORALLY wrong and wrong in that though the dead were "enemy soldiers" they still are owed a little common human decency and the bare minimum of respect.

Remember the British and the German soldiers who were squared off in trenches a few yards from each other on Christmas Eve during WWII?

If those soldiers were trying to bolster their rep as "badasses" then they should have done the pissing OFF camera and let the word spread by mouth about the "battle hardened maniacs" willing to do anything to the enemy to ensure an American victory...filming the incident has destroyed an "street cred" they built up and makes them look like immature children with a serious impulse control problem.
 
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Rana said:
We were discussing the soldiers that urinated on the dead, this is another issue, please don't infuse the two.

I am sure it will be more than a hand slap, do you want them executed, you act like that is the only solution.

What, exactly would you do to punish these soldiers?

I would like to get our of Afghanistan, it will remove these young people from harms way where they won't be killed or have to be killed, and they will no longer committee atrocities to others.
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Since you thought to take a dig at my spelling of feeble, I thought I would return the favor and ask what is "our of Afghanistan"?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
ZappasGuitar said:
And the word you are looking for is "REFLEXIVE" not "reflective".

Anyone want to wager whether USF tries to claim "reflexive" and "reflective" are synonyms?

Or will he admit his mistake?
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Anyone want to bet that all zippy is going to do, is cruise the posts and complain about what they have written instead of actually making a point that can be attributed to him?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
It tells me what you, I and several others already knew...he's just another cowardly little turd who demands accountability from others but disappears when anyone tries to hold him accountable.
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The only way I could be more like that "turd", would be to act like you and demand accountability from others; who then disappears when anyone tries to hold you accountable. :D
 
Damocles said:
However, it is extremely likely. The idea that they are just "getting away with it" or that somebody is trying to defend what they did is just "outrage" over the imaginary. The Marines in question will likely have a General letter added to their file, ending their careers and almost ensuring they will get an "other than honorable" discharge. What Billy described can and has happened in the past, over less.

They will be punished, severely. Adding the outpouring of "outrage" in the press will not help the situation at all and can add a perception that they "got away with it" that is based in fiction rather than reality. It isn't helpful and can actually mislead people who have been called "stone age" level ignorant masses here in this thread. Will they ever hear what has been done to these men because they stepped over that line?
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And what makes it more then likely to happen, is the "publics" faux outrage over this.
If this had been kept "in house" so to speak, then they would have been punished; but probably not to the extent that we're discussing.
Unfortunetly; since the "public" is up in arms over this, it has cast a bad shadow on the Military and consequences must be paid.
Now of course; all he people who lamented over this and voiced their "outrage", will say that the punishment is to harsh.

They're like the towns people in a movie, that cry out for the ofending party to be hanged; but yet at the hanging, they turn away from what they wanted to happen.
 
Kel Tec RFB said:
When I get home I'll tell ya'll a story from my unit in Iraq. It'll illustrate the mentality of the situation.

Suffice it to say, there's a reason why the Corps has a retention rate of about 15%.
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Scares me and I'm fearless. I don't have the best understanding of military culture though.

I can also understand the administrations harsh response to the situation. They worked hard to denounce Bush and his ideological embracing of torture and the disgrace of Abu Grahib and have worked proactively to distance themselves from that only to have a few adrenoline fueled Marines embarras them. I undestant that but I still think a sense of proportionality is in order.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Look, you and I agree probably 99% of the time and I am with you in that I don't want these men severely punished either, so let's not let one disagreement ruin our ability to discuss this rationally.

That said, the bottom line is that what those men did was wrong. Wrong according to the UCMJ or whatever rules they were supposed to be following, ETHICALLY wrong, MORALLY wrong and wrong in that though the dead were "enemy soldiers" they still are owed a little common human decency and the bare minimum of respect.

Remember the British and the German soldiers who were squared off in trenches a few yards from each other on Christmas Eve during WWII?

If those soldiers were trying to bolster their rep as "badasses" then they should have done the pissing OFF camera and let the word spread by mouth about the "battle hardened maniacs" willing to do anything to the enemy to ensure an American victory...filming the incident has destroyed an "street cred" they built up and makes them look like immature children with a serious impulse control problem.
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Of course it wrong. I've never said that it wasn't. I'm just saying I can understand how they feel. I'd feel pretty much "Piss on them" too. There the enemy and their trying to kill me and they've killed and hurt my buddies. They certainly crossed a line too. I'm just saying that even though what they did was wrong that I understand their feelings and that before people get to carried away we should consider the sacrifices they have made and the risks they have taken in serving our nation and that we should not demonize them nor punish them unduly harshly or in a manner that would permanently damage their reputations. Sure they crossed a line of acceptable behavior but the punishment should fit the crime and not the sensibilties of a bunch of self serving politicians.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
The only way I could be more like that "turd", would be to act like you and demand accountability from others; who then disappears when anyone tries to hold you accountable. :D
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So you admit you are like a turd...nice to see you starting to own up to your shortcomings.
 
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