I (gulp) agree with Alan West!

Rana said:
It is so terrible, in boot camp it is literally drilled into your head that the enemy is less than human, this is what allows these young men and women to kill. If they stopped to think that these combatants were people with families, they would not be able to war against them.
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And then they would die; because I guarantee you that the opposition bears no such qualms.
You have a screwed up thought that if the US didn't prepare for war, then the entire world would just hold hands and sing love songs.
You're delusional.
 
Kel Tec RFB said:
So instead they'd go int ocombat, hesitate, and get themselves and their unit killed.
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Absolutely right, Bud was search and destroy in 'Nam. They had to start giving R&R time if they took prisoners, before that incentive, they didn't take many prisoners. He was 19 when he was over there, 19! He faced some of the worst shit of the war. I have so much respect for him and his service for his country. He never use to talk about it at first, but now, after all this time he will talk about some things. He has been a great help to our young friends and family returning from Iraq and Afghanistan after multiple tours. I believe he actually saved one mans life. He is my hero!
 
Bfgrn said:
It does anyways. I believe that is why suicide is so high in returning vets. They can't process and digest what they did to another human being.

It is not only the living who are killed in war.
Isaac Asimov
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I have heard them called the walking wounded. My dad said it was different in WWII, but there was still carry over, but the nation welcomed them home and called them heroes.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
And then they would die; because I guarantee you that the opposition bears no such qualms.
You have a screwed up thought that if the US didn't prepare for war, then the entire world would just hold hands and sing love songs.
You're delusional.
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And you totally misread my sentiment, I am not delusional, I know it is necessary or they couldn't kill others. It needs to be reflexive, it is kill or be killed. War sucks.
 
Rana said:
And you totally misread my sentiment, I am not delusional, I know it is necessary or they couldn't kill others. It needs to be reflexive, it is kill or be killed. War sucks.
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I believe the word you want is instictive and not reflective.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Then you're wrong in your understanding; because if a soldier waits to react "reflectivly" to the enemy, then they are going to be listed as a casuality.
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No, freedom, with quick reflexes, not reflective but reflexive, this is what I said

"And you totally misread my sentiment, I am not delusional, I know it is necessary or they couldn't kill others. It needs to be reflexive, it is kill or be killed. War sucks."
 
Bfgrn said:
First of all, can you tell me how many of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 were from Afghanistan?

And second, Taliban fighters have with out a doubt committed barbaric acts on dead American soldiers they have killed. The only difference is we call them TERRORISTS!!!
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Well, there is also this thing about how we will punish those who did this. The idea that running around crying in outrage will make it better at all is preposterous.

Pretending that this will cause somebody to react poorly, but bombing houses by remote control won't is just flat stupid. This isn't even on the radar compared to that.
 
Damocles said:
Well, there is also this thing about how we will punish those who did this. The idea that running around crying in outrage will make it better at all is preposterous.

Pretending that this will cause somebody to react poorly, but bombing houses by remote control won't is just flat stupid. This isn't even on the radar compared to that.
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I never said the drones that kill innocent people in Afghanistan aren't a huge problem. But to say this incident will not hurt our cause is denial.

Blowback is real. I posted what a lead interrogator was told by captured foreign fighters in Iraq; "the No. 1 reason they flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq."

Osama bin Laden was motivated by a belief that U.S. foreign policy has oppressed, killed, or otherwise harmed Muslims in the Middle East.

It is also interesting that Bin Laden's overall strategy against the United States was to lure us into a long war of attrition in Muslim countries, attracting large numbers of jihadists who would never surrender. He believed this would lead to economic collapse of the enemy nation. Al-Qaeda manuals clearly outline this strategy. In a 2004 tape broadcast by al-Jazeera, bin Laden spoke of "bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy".
 
Bfgrn said:
I never said the drones that kill innocent people in Afghanistan aren't a huge problem. But to say this incident will not hurt our cause is denial.

Blowback is real. I posted what a lead interrogator was told by captured foreign fighters in Iraq; "the No. 1 reason they flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq."

Osama bin Laden was motivated by a belief that U.S. foreign policy has oppressed, killed, or otherwise harmed Muslims in the Middle East.

It is also interesting that Bin Laden's overall strategy against the United States was to lure us into a long war of attrition in Muslim countries, attracting large numbers of jihadists who would never surrender. He believed this would lead to economic collapse of the enemy nation. Al-Qaeda manuals clearly outline this strategy. In a 2004 tape broadcast by al-Jazeera, bin Laden spoke of "bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy".
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Again, no one is condoning what these young men did. We are saying, under the circumstances, we understand why they did that. Let's not blow things out of proportion and do something to damage the reputation of young men who have put their asses and lives on the line to serve their country. I think the Marines will know how to handle this properly with out the influence of over reaching, posturing politicians.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Again, no one is condoning what these young men did. We are saying, under the circumstances, we understand why they did that. Let's not blow things out of proportion and do something to damage the reputation of young men who have put their asses and lives on the line to serve their country. I think the Marines will know how to handle this properly with out the influence of over reaching, posturing politicians.
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Let's sweep it under the rug...

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.
George Orwell
 
Bfgrn said:
Let's sweep it under the rug...

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.
George Orwell
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We have heard of them, these young men will be punished, but they do not have to be crucified for it.
 
Rana said:
We have heard of them, these young men will be punished, but they do not have to be crucified for it.
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I'm sure Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi and her family will be happy they will get their hands slapped...oh, they can't, they are all DEAD...

abeer_qasim_hamza_aljanabi.jpg
3581714582_133e8e95be.jpg




Ex-U.S. soldier found guilty in Iraqi rape, deaths

Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi (عبير قاسم حمزه الجنابي) (February 28, 1992 - March 12, 2006) was an Iraqi girl who, at the age of 14 years, was gang-raped and murdered together with her 5-year-old sister, mother and father, in their home, by U.S. soldiers who then set fire to the building before decamping.


Abeer means "fragrance of flowers." She was 14 years old.

The soldiers noticed her at a checkpoint. They stalked her after one or more of them expressed his intention to rape her. On March 12, after playing cards while slugging whisky mixed with a high-energy drink and practicing their golf swings, they changed into black civvies and burst into Abeer's home in Mahmoudiya, a town 50 miles south of Baghdad. They killed her mother Fikhriya, father Qassim, and five-year-old sister Hadeel with bullets to the forehead, and "took turns" raping Abeer. Finally, they murdered her, drenched the bodies with kerosene, and lit them on fire to destroy the evidence. Then the GIs grilled chicken wings.

These details are from a sworn statement by Spc. James P. Barker, one of the accused along with Sgt. Paul Cortez, Pfc. Jesse Spielman, and Pfc. Bryan Howard; a fifth, Sgt. Anthony Yribe, is charged with failing to report the attack but not with having participated.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/40481/

Abeerh.jpg


So much for personal responsibility...

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi
 
Bfgrn said:
I'm sure Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi and her family will be happy they will get their hands slapped...oh, they can't, they are all DEAD...

abeer_qasim_hamza_aljanabi.jpg
3581714582_133e8e95be.jpg




Ex-U.S. soldier found guilty in Iraqi rape, deaths

Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi (عبير قاسم حمزه الجنابي) (February 28, 1992 - March 12, 2006) was an Iraqi girl who, at the age of 14 years, was gang-raped and murdered together with her 5-year-old sister, mother and father, in their home, by U.S. soldiers who then set fire to the building before decamping.


Abeer means "fragrance of flowers." She was 14 years old.

The soldiers noticed her at a checkpoint. They stalked her after one or more of them expressed his intention to rape her. On March 12, after playing cards while slugging whisky mixed with a high-energy drink and practicing their golf swings, they changed into black civvies and burst into Abeer's home in Mahmoudiya, a town 50 miles south of Baghdad. They killed her mother Fikhriya, father Qassim, and five-year-old sister Hadeel with bullets to the forehead, and "took turns" raping Abeer. Finally, they murdered her, drenched the bodies with kerosene, and lit them on fire to destroy the evidence. Then the GIs grilled chicken wings.

These details are from a sworn statement by Spc. James P. Barker, one of the accused along with Sgt. Paul Cortez, Pfc. Jesse Spielman, and Pfc. Bryan Howard; a fifth, Sgt. Anthony Yribe, is charged with failing to report the attack but not with having participated.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/40481/

Abeerh.jpg


So much for personal responsibility...

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi
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We were discussing the soldiers that urinated on the dead, this is another issue, please don't infuse the two.

I am sure it will be more than a hand slap, do you want them executed, you act like that is the only solution.

What, exactly would you do to punish these soldiers?

I would like to get our of Afghanistan, it will remove these young people from harms way where they won't be killed or have to be killed, and they will no longer committee atrocities to others.
 
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