I (gulp) agree with Alan West!

The Dude said:
Get off obamas ball sack, the Taliban had dick to do with 911. They prob sold dope to alqueda.
We have zero justification to be thier yet have killed thousands. Suck my dick with your phoney justification.
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Oh no....they just gave material aid and comfort to the pricks that did and then refused to either turn them over or boot them out.....I got news for you Topper....that's an act of war.
 
Fucking warhawk, so what about the Hyatt they stayed at. These are fucking nomads in a desert fighting each other. They don't know dick about us except we started killing the shit out of them. If we bread terrorist in Iraq then we are a fertility clinic of taliban breeders in afghanistan. Get off obuma's nutsack!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
LOL! Yea and these are the same guys who brought down the Soviet Empire using guerrilla tactics. I have a sneaky hunch that a golden shower isn't going to evoke much more of a response then "Oh yea? Fuck you too!"
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Technically they're not the same guys. Those would be the Mujahhedeen(sp). They are some of our few allies in the current conflict.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
None. They were all Saudi's but I fail to see your point. That group of terrorist (Al Qaeda) had recieved material aid and sanction by the Taliban party who was ruling Afghanistan. That made them a material participant in the act and a clear and present danger to our national security. I'm not calling them Terrorist. I'm calling them the legitimate government of Afghanistan (at that time) who comitted an act of war against the US. Whether or not our mission to remove them from power is over and we are now engaged in nation building is a completely different topic. Whether we are fighting an open ended war against some poorly defined group called "terrorist" is a different topic for debate. What is not a topic for depbate is that in 2001 the Government of Afghanistan represented by the Taliban was complicit in the worst act of terrorism in our nations history and represented a clear and present danger to our national security which justified our going to war with them.
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reagan_taliban_1985.jpg
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How incredibly niave. War is barbaric. As Sherman said "You cannot refine it.". If you don't like barbarism. Don't go to war!
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Yes, but we also go into it only half heartedly because the citizens of America don't want civilians killed. It use to be when a country went to war they killed everything in their path. There is a lot of debate on ths issue and that is why war should be the VERY last consideration.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
Well what pisses me off is because the media is making such a big deal with their faux outrage and because it has now entered the political arena those poor dumb bastards will get punished well beyond what they deserve. Hell they killed an armed enemy in combat and pissed on them. I think they should get a medal! Fuck these pussies who don't understand that war means killing your enemy and that there's no polite way to do that. You can't show any one more disrespect then killing them for Christs sakes!
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It is so terrible, in boot camp it is literally drilled into your head that the enemy is less than human, this is what allows these young men and women to kill. If they stopped to think that these combatants were people with families, they would not be able to war against them.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Great question. I honestly don't know how we can do either modernize them deny them access to western flights
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The way to modernize them is to educate their woman. I recently read a book that showed educating the women of a population is the key to better a society.
 
Kel Tec RFB said:
The current 5.56x45mm NATO round that we use weights 62 grains. Out of a 20in barrel it travels around 3100 feet per second. Upon impact, if it acts as designed, the copper jacket is supposed to fragment into several smaller pieces that travel on different courses through out the body, causing several smaller wound tracts from the original injury. Additionally, the lead/steel core (it's a mix of both) is intended to tumble and yaw end over end through the body, doing at least 1 complete 360 degree turn. In this manner the 5.56 is quite a gruesome tool when used singly. All combat drills call for 2 shots center mass and a final shot to the brain. Needless to say this is pretty horrific trauma for a human body to handle. It liquidates internal organs and destroys muscle tissue with ease.

I don't even WANT to describe what a m67 fragmentation grenade, 40mm grenade round, or 155mm artillery shell do.
All of this is ok, but if someone takes a piss on the guy afterwards, that's too much. Yeah, ok guys.
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Thanks, and I had the misfortune of walking by a laptop one time and seeing the results of a grenade on a human body. I cried, and almost got sick to my stomach. It is important for people to understand this from both sides of the story and why we must not go to war unless absolutely necessary. It changes people for the rest of their lives.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Exactly Damo. Well said. I'm not sayinig it's ok either. I'm saying it's understandable. They just killed an enemy soldier that was trying to kill them.
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I don't think any of us think it is okay, but until you have walked a mile in their shoes you don't know what it is like to be in a fire fight, and have your friends and that is not an apt description because they are more than friends, they become family and they become someone you would die for everyday, killed. My husband told me a rage like he had never known filled him. It was pure hate. You want revenge.

I see both sides of the argument and that is why, war is hell, but I have never heard of a civilized war.
 
Socrtease said:
No what it does, is it makes the ordinary everyday Afghan, that might not have even given much thought to the US being there because he lives in the stone age, decide that the Taliban are right to fight us. Special Forces in Vietnam were making headway with lots of different villages and populations, UNTIL the US sent in ordinary troops, who were indiscriminate in their actions, and who shit all over the gains made by Special Forces.
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You are right, too.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Hello Soc! We lost Vietnam using that strategy.

You don't use armies to win the hearts and minds of people. You use doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers, etc, to do that. It is not the mission of soldiers to win anyones hearts and minds, particularly an enemy. It is the soldiers mission to kill the enemy and it was this sort of confusion as to the proper role of the military which lead directly to our loss in Vietnam. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
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Teachers, educate the populace and a secular government work well, too!
 
Bfgrn said:
In Vietnam, American forces won every major battle, but we failed to distinguish ourselves as anything but an occupier. Images of America, the 'city upon a hill', napalming villages of women and children turned the Vietnamese people and ultimately the American people against that war. What these four barbaric animals did could have the same effect. So maybe they did us a favor.

End this war, it turns the paperboy into a criminal who will be 100 times more likely to end HIS OWN life in the near future.

pulitzer_nick_ut_vietnam_napalm_kim_phuc_6872_L.jpg


That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by keeping up the quarrels of Nations is as shocking as it is true...
Thomas Paine
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I hate tha picture.
 
Bfgrn said:
First of all, can you tell me how many of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 were from Afghanistan?

And second, Taliban fighters have with out a doubt committed barbaric acts on dead American soldiers they have killed. The only difference is we call them TERRORISTS!!!
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Our government is misguided, you can not blame the soldier sent in to do the dirty work! Leaders use to lead the charge into battle, now they sit in their cushy armchairs and bark orders from hundreds of miles away. They view others as collateral damage. War is evil and so are the leaders who approve of it.
 
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Rana said:
It is so terrible, in boot camp it is literally drilled into your head that the enemy is less than human, this is what allows these young men and women to kill. If they stopped to think that these combatants were people with families, they would not be able to war against them.
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So instead they'd go int ocombat, hesitate, and get themselves and their unit killed.
 
Kel Tec RFB said:
So instead they'd go int ocombat, hesitate, and get themselves and their unit killed.
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Yup, exactly and that's why their taught to dehumanize the enemy. So that they won't hesitate to kill them and get themselves and colleagues killed. It may be ugly but that is the basic mission of the soldier. To kill the enemy.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Hello Soc! We lost Vietnam using that strategy.

You don't use armies to win the hearts and minds of people. You use doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers, etc, to do that. It is not the mission of soldiers to win anyones hearts and minds, particularly an enemy. It is the soldiers mission to kill the enemy and it was this sort of confusion as to the proper role of the military which lead directly to our loss in Vietnam. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
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On this we agree.
The Military's goal is to kick ass and take names; but if they don't issue the paper, then it's just to kick ass.
 
Kel Tec RFB said:
Its very difficult to see them as human. It'll haunt you afterwards forever.
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It does anyways. I believe that is why suicide is so high in returning vets. They can't process and digest what they did to another human being.

It is not only the living who are killed in war.
Isaac Asimov
 
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