ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Thanks. You put it in better words than I did. I enjoy civil debate but when my words are deliberately or inadvertently misconstrued I'm done.
I left part of my body in Iraq
- Thread starter floridafan
- Start date
Thanks. You put it in better words than I did. I enjoy civil debate but when my words are deliberately or inadvertently misconstrued I'm done.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
So do you think what Doug Collins said was disgustingly wrong? Should Republicans stop with the phony patriotism?
I guess they're tolerant enough to admit when they agree with me even if they disagree with me on other things. Liberals generally aren't NPCs like Conservatives are.
You'd be allowed to immigrate to the ethnostate.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
Navy, Vietnam two tours as I have written my ship and where it was in nam' numerous times, 69 and 72 as a gunners mate 2cl Saigon river patrol in support of the river patrol fleet and Yankee gun station
http://www.mightymux.com/
https://www.navysite.de/dd/dd944.htm
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Controlled Opposition
Note my apathy
I didn't say a word about Doug Collins.
I am already here. To which area of the nation would you make a white guy, like me, move? Where would you put the Mexicans, African Americans, etc.? You keep promoting the idea of an ethnostate for white people, but it does not appear that you have a real plan. Have you thought it through?
Controlled Opposition
Note my apathy
Thanks. YOU are the real deal.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Because you can't defend his comments.
Nobody has to be forced to move anywhere. If it was up to me, the states in the North-West and North-East that are like 80% white would secede and form two white ethnostates, one in each region. Nobody would be kicked out, but only white people would be allowed to immigrate there.
Another possibility would be to not have any states secede, but simply just allow white immigration and get rid of anti-discrimination laws so that we could have white neighborhoods, schools, businesses, and so on.
See, creating white ethnostates isn't hard, the only thing standing in the way is the idea that it can't be done along with the fear of being called "racist."
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
The Balkanization would not be good for America
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Of course you would say that, you're a Jew. You only support Ethnic Nationalism when it's for Jews.
Controlled Opposition
Note my apathy
I have not even read his comments. You're one of the people on this forum whom I classify as a mind-reader.
As for your racist plan, you and I can rest easy in the knowledge that your half-baked idea is something you made up in response to my post. It is absurd. No one, left, right, or center would ever agree to something that stupid.
Not yet Fender head. No matter how you wish.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Oh, I believe it. When you're an NPC, you can defend people without even knowing what they're about.
Nice try, but I already outlined this plan on this forum before. So I obviously didn't make it up in response to your post.
The fact that Trump, a mentally ill serial rapist who has failed at virtually everything he ever did, got elected president on the platform of building a wall to keep out Mexicans and enacting a Muslim ban, just shows how many Americans want to keep America white. I agree that most white people do not consider themselves Ethnic Nationalists and won't support building a white ethnostate. However, most white people do self-segregate and do support policies to keep America as white as possible.
Controlled Opposition
Note my apathy
Once again, you suffer the delusion of believing that you can read minds. Beyond that, you make shit up, and your "plan" is plain stupid. You engage in sweeping generalizations and extrapolate to the point of being ridiculous. It is no plan at all.
Scut Farkus
Verified User
unless you're hillary.
There's a lot to unpack here.
While some of Trump's base probably do explicitly want America to remain somewhat white, there are other reasons for supporting limited immigration that go well beyond race.
Limiting immigration south of the border has to do with 2 things -- limiting the surplus of unskilled labor and limiting cartel influence. Most migrants obviously aren't cartel members, but some are. Detainment and screening are needed to keep out cartel members and smugglers. Limiting unskilled labor keeps wages from falling further regarding many jobs. And a lot of native born Americans have been filling the jobs that were recently opened due to deportations.
Limiting Islamic immigration is about values. Many Muslims clearly don't believe in free speech, as shown by their behavior in parts of Europe. If a Mohammed cartoon is enough to drive you into a homicidal rage, you don't belong in a Western country. There are also issues with radicalization in some mosques that are caused by Imams that immigrate here. Also, a lot of Islamic refugees pose the same economic problems that Latin American ones do by not having needed job skills.
I think plenty of conservatives would be just fine with limiting immigration by certain skill sets (regardless of the religion or country of origin of the person). Even most of Trump's base would probably be ok with that.
While some people focus on race, I think a lot more people consider the economics of the situation along with desiring some commonality in values among the people that are let in.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
What did I make up?
What sweeping generalizations?
If by "it is no plan" at all, you mean it's not going to happen, I'll grant you that it's not going to happen any time soon. However, a quick look at Europe shows that multiracialism is forcing people to wake up.
What do Iranis think about Soleimani? https://shadowproof.com/2020/01/13/...sination-of-iranian-general-qassim-soleimani/ Not a western point of view, but by a real Irani involved in the arena. This good guy /bad guy thing is just so stupid.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Before the media turned immigration into a racial issue, the Left used to oppose third world immigration because it causes wages to fall. So yeah, totally an issue that could have nothing to do with race. But.... really..... how many Americans do you think are aware of this? How many Trump voters, most of which are extremely uneducated, are aware of this? Most of these people think Obama caused job loss.
Those Muslims are the exception, not the rule. To put it into perspective, Muslim Americans are more likely to support gay marriage than Evangelical Americans. One can argue that Muslims are more assimilated to Western values than Evangelicals are.
Sure, maybe a lot of Americans aren't aware of this, but then why isn't there a call to ban Russian immigrants? Russia is also anti-gay and opposed to Western Democracy.
Now ask yourself, if the majority of Muslims coming here were Albanians and Bosnians, would anyone care?
And yet when Trump said he wanted more immigration from Norway, his base didn't have a problem with that. They didn't demand he clarify that we're only talking about skilled Norwegians.
There is also all the use of racist tropes. When Trump said a judge couldn't be trusted because he's Mexican, his base didn't have a problem with that. When he told the Squad to "go back" to their countries, his base didn't have a problem with that. When he put off rebuking David Duke for as long as possible, they didn't have a problem with that.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is all Trumpcucks. A lot of them are NPC cucks who will support the Republican no matter what. Others are trolls who just like Trump because he makes people mad. There are also Anarchists who think Trump destroying America would be a good thing. However, it's clear that a very large portion of his supporters are white people who, while they don't identify as Ethnic Nationalists, want Nationalist policies.
Those are some pretty broad assumptions. Plenty of Trump voters did specifically mention the jobs and wages issue. That's part of why Trump won the Rust Belt with the immigration issue.
You're right that the media did everything it could to make immigration and border security about race though. It's part of why people like yourself apparently fell for the argument that most Trump voters are racists.
I'm going to need to see the stats on the gay marriage claim. It is true that most Muslims are not violent people, even when their religion is offended. However, their understanding of free speech is usually very different from our own. This is part of why hate speech laws keep getting broadened in Europe regarding criticisms of Islam. Some of the push is from progressives, but some of it is also from Muslims themselves. Thankfully, our system is better at protecting free speech, so attempts to broaden hate speech here usually fail. Still, if enough Muslims immigrated here, you'd eventually see a much stronger push to censor certain forms of speech that is offensive toward Islam.
Plenty of Americans have taken issue with Bosnian Muslims, mostly because some of them have committed terror attacks. Albanians don't tend to be targeted, because they don't tend to be extremist. By contrast, there are multiple cases of Arab and African Muslims that have committed terror attacks here.
If Russians started committing a lot of terror attacks here, then you'd likely see a push for restricting immigration from there. Muslims from Russia (particularly Chechens) have started getting more scrutiny due to people like the Tsarnaev brothers.
Fair enough on those points, although I still don't understand how you can criticize those incidents while still supporting racial separatism. It seems a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
Nationalism comes in a lot of forms. You can be a cultural nationalist without being what would normally be considered "ethnic nationalist." For example, you can prefer only letting in people whose cultures assimilate well with Western values.
There isn't typically much opposition to East Asian immigration, for example, because you rarely hear about them committing terror attacks or trying to restrict freedoms.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
McCain and Romney also talked about jobs and wages, virtually every politician does. What got Trump so much support was the wall and the Muslim ban. Though I do think there were other factors, such as people thinking he was an outsider, and thinking he's honest because he's so stupid.
I don't think most Trump voters are racist. I think most of them, like myself, just believe in racial separation, even if they're not completely aware of their own beliefs.
Immigration is mainly a racial issue. When I say the media made it a racial issue, I mean they brought it to light in a way that we now all see it as racial. The media made brown people see immigration as a very personal and cultural fight for them. But even before that, it was always about racial demographics.
"Muslims, by a margin of 51 percent to 34 percent, favor same-sex marriage, compared to just four years ago when a majority, 51 percent, were opposed."
https://www.newsweek.com/muslim-white-evangelical-gay-marriage-907627
The reason hate speech laws in Europe are being broadened to include Islam is because hate speech laws are already a common part of Europe. For decades now, most European countries have had laws against hate speech based on race as well as laws against denying the Holocaust or Communist war crimes. So it's not that Muslims are taking away free speech, it's just that Europe is adjusting to having a big religious minority.
Now I'm totally against any hate speech laws, but if a country is going to have hate speech laws, they should at least include everyone.
Considering that most terrorism in America comes from the Far Right, I don't think this is really about terrorism. Maybe it is for a few really religious Conservatards who have bumper stickers that say "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11." But for most people, I think it's just about a foreign non-white culture trying to move to America.
You can support racial separatism without being rude to people of different races or using racism to gain power, like Trump does.
But the point is most Trumpcucks want racial separatism, even if it does come in the form of racism. They don't mind when Trump says racist things because some of them are racist themselves, and others are willing to support racism if that's what it takes to keep America white. They might not like racism, but racism isn't a deal-breaker for these people.
Assimilation only happens when the immigrants are the same race as the majority. This is why Blacks, Jews, Mestizos, and Native Americans still haven't become American, despite being here longer than most white ethnic groups.
The only reason there isn't much opposition to East Asian immigration is because they're still a pretty small minority. In New York City, which has gotten most of the Chinese immigrants, there's tons of racism against East Asians. The same thing is starting to happen in California because the Asians are taking all of the good jobs. Give it some time and you'll be hearing similar stuff about how Asians aren't assimilating and we need to stop taking so damn many of them.
I see it more as cultural demographics. Democratic countries determine policies by broadly accepted preferences. Preferences change as the cultural makeup changes. Race sometimes corresponds with culture, but not always.
When looking at US Muslims, that includes a lot of black people that converted to Islam. Most of them probably are more liberal than the average Arab.
How are blacks not American?