IDIOT STATEMENT: If you dont want to make it illegal, you support and condone it!

Superfreak said:
"And the doctors say it is never a matter of life or health! Case closed! "

WHERE DO THEY SAY THAT???? You have not provide one shred of evidence to support that. Which is WHY the AMA said it should be up to the discretion of the physician.
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Well Super, they said it before Congress, when they were holding extensive hearings in the 103rd, 104th, 105th, and 106th. It was part of the clear and compelling evidence considered by our representatives before they made an informed decision and cast their votes. Should we go find the transcripts to those hearings and see? I'm sure they are posted somewhere online, and I'm fairly sure you or I could probably go look them up, if that is necessary. I happen to think the text from the bill will suffice as a "shred of evidence" to support my position, but golly gee... I don't see a single solitary thing to support your contention to the contrary! Where are all these doctors who claim the procedure could be necessary for the health or life of the mother?

Again, the AMA stated they opposed the procedure, and that it posed a risk to the health of women it was performed on. They seldom ever tie the hands of the doctor with absolutes, it's generally not what they do. Of course, you can cling to this as some intellectually dishonest way to make a point, but that makes you no different than any other pinhead out there. Is that what you want to be?
 
Superfreak said:
"you and others have ALSO determined that these two lives, the mother's and the unborns are not of equal value....even in your own head."

Care... you are testing my patience. I have stated over and over again that the two lives ARE of equal value and should be afforded the same rights. The only time that I think a woman should have a choice with regards to an abortion is when HER life is in danger. THEN she has a choice. IT does not devalue the life of the child. They are equal.
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yes super, i can see that i am testing your patience.

but the Fact of the matter is, you have chosen a point, in the life of the unborn, where the unborn has less worth than the living mother...YOU can dance around that ALL you want.

you may think you are right in your logic and your judgement of precisely when that point is, and many, many people would agree with you, but many may not and may use their OWN differing logic and judgement of that point....some may say it is at the end of the embryo stage but before the fetus stage where the child's organs and body are formed, some may say it is never and believe the unborn baby should always come first over the mother, some may say it is when incest has occured or when the mother is raped.

It is a judgement call that you made, and that you want everyone to agree with and abide by, and you want our government to enforce what you believe as the 'right'' moment where the mother's worth and choice is superior to and overrules that of the unborn child...because you believe that your judgement and logic supercedes that of others that differ.

and that's fine and dandy....because we all live in a world of freewill with individual choices to make.

care
 
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Care4all said:
yes super, i can see that i am testing your patience.

but the Fact of the matter is, you have chosen a point, in the life of the unborn, where the unborn has less worth than the living mother...YOU can dance around that ALL you want.

you may think you are right in your logic and your judgement of precisely when that point is, and many, many people would agree with you, but many may not and may use their OWN differing logic and judgement of that point....some may say it is at the end of the embryo stage but before the fetus stage where the child's organs and body are formed, some may say it is never and believe the unborn baby should always come first over the mother, some may say it is when incest has occured or when the mother is raped.

It is a judgement call that you made, and that you want everyone to agree with and abide by, and you want our government to enforce what you believe as the 'right'' moment where the mother's worth and choice is superior to and overrules that of the unborn child...because you believe that your judgement and logic supercedes that of others that differ.

and that's fine and dandy....because we all live in a world of freewill with individual choices to make.

care
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Well put.
 
Care: "Super...the mother's life in all instances is of greater value than the unborn..."

Super: "Care... you are testing my patience. I have stated over and over again that the two lives ARE of equal value and should be afforded the same rights."

Care: "the Fact of the matter is, you have chosen a point, in the life of the unborn, where the unborn has less worth than the living mother...YOU can dance around that ALL you want."

Is anyone else as confused as I am about what Care thinks? It seems as if one day, she argues AGAINST abortion, and the next day, she argues FOR abortion! In one instance, she argues the life of the mother is more important, and the worth of the unborn is subject to scrutiny, then she turns around and argues the opposite point! I can't keep up with the spin here!
 
Dixie said:
Care: "Super...the mother's life in all instances is of greater value than the unborn..."

Super: "Care... you are testing my patience. I have stated over and over again that the two lives ARE of equal value and should be afforded the same rights."

Care: "the Fact of the matter is, you have chosen a point, in the life of the unborn, where the unborn has less worth than the living mother...YOU can dance around that ALL you want."

Is anyone else as confused as I am about what Care thinks? It seems as if one day, she argues AGAINST abortion, and the next day, she argues FOR abortion! In one instance, she argues the life of the mother is more important, and the worth of the unborn is subject to scrutiny, then she turns around and argues the opposite point! I can't keep up with the spin here!
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superfreak SAID that if the circumstance is between the life of the mother or the life of the unborn child, the life of the mother supercedes that of the unborn's life, or the choice of the mother supercedes that of the unborn's.

he chose a point where they are not on equal footing, if you can't understand that then you get the pinhead award of the month!
 
Dixie said:
Care: "Super...the mother's life in all instances is of greater value than the unborn..."

Super: "Care... you are testing my patience. I have stated over and over again that the two lives ARE of equal value and should be afforded the same rights."

Care: "the Fact of the matter is, you have chosen a point, in the life of the unborn, where the unborn has less worth than the living mother...YOU can dance around that ALL you want."

Is anyone else as confused as I am about what Care thinks? It seems as if one day, she argues AGAINST abortion, and the next day, she argues FOR abortion! In one instance, she argues the life of the mother is more important, and the worth of the unborn is subject to scrutiny, then she turns around and argues the opposite point! I can't keep up with the spin here!
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Is anyone else as confused as I am about what Care thinks?

No. She is quite clear. She recognizes that in real life there are gray areas and nuance that are worthy of addressing. Everything is not black and white.


For somebody like you, who voted to KEEP alabama's ban on inter-racial marriage, I know you see everthing in black and white.
 
what i am doing dixie, is showing that this issue is not as simple as it seems.

would i ever repeat what i did, knowing what i know today....no.

i have been punished for my OWN individual actions here on Earth....a botched abortion took my ability to ever have children... away from me. it not only has hurt me, but it has hurt matthew, someone i love very much, though he tells me he's fine with it....and happy to just have me in his life.

but as with moses, david and saul, the murderers that i mentioned in the other thread, God knew that i would make this bad mistake, and He loves me regardless....in fact HE used this to bring me even closer to Him....NOT to be closer to you or to be closer to super or to be closer to Darla or Ornot or Jarod.....but to be closer to HIM.
 
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Cypress said:
Is anyone else as confused as I am about what Care thinks?

No. She is quite clear. She recognizes that in real life there are gray areas and nuance that are worthy of addressing. Everything is not black and white.


For somebody like you, who voted to KEEP alabama's ban on inter-racial marriage, I know you see everthing in black and white.
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I think that's an understatement. The person who wrote this (*below) left any reason about five stops back.

*“If it were up to me personally, there would be no legal abortion... If any abortion occurred for any reason, it would be a crime of murder, punishable by death, preferably stoning, as God mandated in the Old Testament.”
 
The AMA is for the medical exemption.

"The Physician must, however, retain the discretion to make that judgment, acting within the standards of good medical practice and in the best interest of the patient."
 
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God knew that i would make this bad mistake, and He loves me regardless....in fact HE used this to bring me even closer to Him....NOT to be closer to you or to be closer to super or to be closer to Darla or Ornot or Jarod.....but to be closer to HIM.

Well that is a very touching story, and there is no doubt God can forgive you for sins you confess to Him, but I honestly don't understand how you can continue to advocate and support abortion for any reason or under any circumstance. It would seem, you, of all people, would be standing on your head to speak out against this terrible act against humanity. But this isn't the case, you will sit here and form justifications and excuses for continuing your support of what you fully know and understand is wrong, in a moral sense, as well as God's eyes. I totally don't understand that.
 
For somebody like you, who voted to KEEP alabama's ban on inter-racial marriage, I know you see everthing in black and white.

Sorry, I have to correct this lie, apparently you fucktards can't keep from lying about me, I don't understand that either. I never voted to keep any such ban, wasn't even living in Alabama at the time. Had I been here, and had I voted, I would have voted the opposite way. Now, I can't "prove" this, you just have to take my word for it, or go on believing whatever the fuck you want to about me, I really don't care, but you're not going to spread these slanderous lies without me responding, asshole.
 
I think that's an understatement. The person who wrote this (*below) left any reason about five stops back.

*“If it were up to me personally, there would be no legal abortion... If any abortion occurred for any reason, it would be a crime of murder, punishable by death, preferably stoning, as God mandated in the Old Testament.”

Uhm, Darla... The context of that statement is very important, we were discussing the issue of whether our personal religious beliefs play a role in what we support as the law of the land. I merely made the point that I don't expect society to live by my personal beliefs, or our laws to be structured around what I personally believe. Now, I realize this is a tough concept for a liberal to grasp, but I really have no desire to force you to live by my moral code.

The particular statement you quote, was in response to someone who was actually calling me to task for my position on an allowance for abortion in case of rape or incest. They called me hypocritical because I made those exceptions, and I responded with the quote you posted. I suppose I could just turn into a complete hard ass right winger, and oppose all abortion under any circumstance and be completely unwilling to budge on that, but unlike you, I can be objective and reasonable.

My exception for rape and incest is a compromise, it doesn't mean I am a hypocrite, my personal view is not important, and I wouldn't expect society to conform to what I personally think, if I thought that was appropriate, I would advocate against all abortion and recommend stoning... IF it were up to me alone to decide. I hope that you can comprehend the context of what I stated, but I am not holding my breath. You have shown no indication of ever trying to understand or respect what I have to say, and every indication that you are a bitter hate filled bitch with nothing better to do than shit on other people.
 
Haven't visited for awhile but I see Jarod the Clown's posts have become even more stupid and more irrelevant to intelligent debate....
The abortion thread was very, very good....Dix cleaned some clocks as usual....

Have fun girls and boys....
 
Dixie said:
God knew that i would make this bad mistake, and He loves me regardless....in fact HE used this to bring me even closer to Him....NOT to be closer to you or to be closer to super or to be closer to Darla or Ornot or Jarod.....but to be closer to HIM.

Well that is a very touching story, and there is no doubt God can forgive you for sins you confess to Him, but I honestly don't understand how you can continue to advocate and support abortion for any reason or under any circumstance. It would seem, you, of all people, would be standing on your head to speak out against this terrible act against humanity. But this isn't the case, you will sit here and form justifications and excuses for continuing your support of what you fully know and understand is wrong, in a moral sense, as well as God's eyes. I totally don't understand that.
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I think it is because I believe that this mistake made me a BETTER person all around. Yes, I have suffered and still am suffering both mentally and physically, as I am sure you all can tell....

but I can't make THIS decision for someone else Dixie. And whether abortion is legal or illegal it will still continue as long as people have sex outside of marriage and as long as men continue to shirk their responsibility in this whole mess.

And also, I would rather have a safe place for people to have an abortion, so that at least BOTH of them don't die.....

unlike you, who thinks the mothers to be are murderers and should be stoned to death, if that quote of yours is correct and truthful that is attributed to you, I have forgiven them, as Jesus forgave the adulteress being stoned, as he forgave Paul for his murders, as God forgave moses and David and others that were His children....

you reap what you sow here on earth....

I don't want one women to have to go through what I have gone through, but sometimes that is what it will take to wake them up....you have to let freewill work, for God's sake.

I realize and know it was not a wise decision, but it was MY DECISION.

These children that have died before they were born, are with God...I truely believe this...the women left behind are the ones that need help and need forgiveness.

We need to focus on the reasons why abortion is taking place, in order to slow them down or stop them.

care
 
DIXIE: "I would advocate against all abortion and recommend stoning... IF it were up to me alone to decide"


You are a sick and twisted freak.

If it were up to you, you would recommend stoning your neighbors teenage daughter to death, if she got an abortion?

Would you stone your own daughter to death, if she got an abortion? If it were up to you, of course.
 
but I can't make THIS decision for someone else Dixie. And whether abortion is legal or illegal it will still continue as long as people have sex outside of marriage and as long as men continue to shirk their responsibility in this whole mess.

No one is expecting you to make this decision for others. You are correct, abortion would still happen, rich people would fly to Europe or whatever, some people would try to do it themselves and end up dead, I understand this. But you know what, the number of times an innocent life was taken would be drastically reduced, if we just put some restrictions on it and kept abortion from being used as birth control. That's all I am asking for, I don't expect us to completely outlaw any and all abortions and stone people to death... that might be what I would advocate if I were King Dixie, in charge of deciding what rules we all lived by, but that is not the case.

We have a moral and ethical obligation to prevent abortions, this means passing laws against the practice, advocating against it, giving people alternatives, educating young women about it, counseling young women in trouble, providing reasonable alternatives, teaching our school children about the risks of having unprotected sex, demanding that people accept personal responsibility for their actions (including men), and ending this continuing barrage of false justification and acceptance of something we KNOW is wrong, by claiming it is a 'right'.

I don't want to see women die in alleys, but I also don't want to continue seeing a million lives a year sucked down a tube for vanity and convenience, nor do I want to continue seeing friends suffer from depression and guilt their whole life for what they did. I can't understand how someone who claims to "care for all" would continue to advocate something they know about first hand, and realize is bad and wrong.
 
We need to focus on the reasons why abortion is taking place, in order to slow them down or stop them.

One of the reasons they take place is because they are completely legal and totally unrestricted in any way, and we've allowed the notion that it is a 'right of choice' to stand. It used to be completely legal to gun someone down in the streets of Dodge City, but we eventually outlawed the practice, and guess what happened? For the most part, it stopped! Funny how that works, huh? It used to be completely legal for white people to own black people, we justified the behavior for many years by claiming black people were not human beings and didn't have human rights, but we eventually came to our senses and outlawed the practice, and guess what? The behavior ceased to exist. We used to allow men to beat hell out of their wives.... guess what we did about it? Over and over again, we've had issues that were a moral challenge, and our solution of outlawing the practice was the answer. Seldom has this not worked to effect a change in our behavior as a society, we just needed to have the moral integrity to do what was right.
 
I don't want one women to be put in the position where she feels she must have an abortion... there is nothing vane about this decision, it is usually done by someone who is MORE AFRAID of having a child out of wedlock and having to rear them on their own....it is usually done because the girl thinks there is no other option....it was usually done because society made women feel like they were dirt if they had a baby out of wedlock...meant to be treated like a whore, even if she was a one man woman...but the man skipped away...or because she was alone and not even old enough to hold down a fulltime job....

now, things may be different, more women are having their babies out of wedlock...45% of all babies born are to single women...don't forget that...the woman is getting stronger and feels she can make it, even if the guy skips town....and even though all statistics say that she and her child will have a rough life and be destined to poverty.
 
Cypress said:
DIXIE: "I would advocate against all abortion and recommend stoning... IF it were up to me alone to decide"


You are a sick and twisted freak.

If it were up to you, you would recommend stoning your neighbors teenage daughter to death, if she got an abortion?

Would you stone your own daughter to death, if she got an abortion? If it were up to you, of course.
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Prissy, I guess you can't read, otherwise you would have read my explanation. Either that, or you can't comprehend what you read. Regardless, my point was, I am not in charge of deciding what laws the whole of society lives by, and I understand this. Some people don't, they simply think that we should all live our lives the way they think is right, and it doesn't matter if we agree or not.

Yeah, if I were King Dixie, and I got to decide what our laws and rules were, I would outlaw all abortions and punish violators with stoning, as God mandated in the Old Testament, I would also outlaw Liberalism and round you and your pinhead detractors up and shoot you. I would make going to Church and worshiping God a mandatory requirement, there would be no condoms in schools, and our kids would actually be required to study and learn. I would be one hard ass son of a bitch to live under, IF I were in charge! I'm NOT! I will NEVER be! That was my point! Aren't you glad we live in a democracy?
 
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