If An Election Is Compromised By Foreign Influence, Why Dont We Get A Take Over?

P

PoliTalker

Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello and greetings good people,

By now, pretty much everyone agrees that Russia influenced our 2016 national election. We know it was not a USA-only election. We didn't put America first.

Our election was compromised.

So why do we have to live with the result?

We don't currently have any way of tossing that result out and holding a new election.

Our Constitution does not address that.

Why not?

Maybe we need new election integrity oversights and balances. Covering more than simply the tallying of votes. We have to combat digital warfare.

Ya think?

Otherwise, Russian bots are going to stir up more hatred, more fake news, more trash, because too many Americans are gullible enough to get taken in by it. Did we seriously have Russians organizing Rallies during our US election campaign? How can we expect to have a government for, by and of the American people if we have foreign adversaries campaigning? Is there any way to regulate foreign influence on our elections?

We need new legal tools to oversee the election process, and to rectify compromised elections in the future. Our lawmakers have work to do. If they had any integrity it would be done on a bipartisan basis, and it would be so popular it would be veto-proof.
 
Bears repeating.

"Otherwise, Russian bots are going to stir up more hatred, more fake news, more trash, because too many Americans are gullible enough to get taken in by it. Did we seriously have Russians organizing Rallies during our US election campaign? How can we expect to have a government for, by and of the American people if we have foreign adversaries campaigning? Is there any way to regulate foreign influence on our elections?"
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello and greetings good people,

By now, pretty much everyone agrees that Russia influenced our 2016 national election. We know it was not a USA-only election. We didn't put America first.

Our election was compromised.

So why do we have to live with the result?

We don't currently have any way of tossing that result out and holding a new election.

Our Constitution does not address that.

Why not?

Maybe we need new election integrity oversights and balances. Covering more than simply the tallying of votes. We have to combat digital warfare.

Ya think?

Otherwise, Russian bots are going to stir up more hatred, more fake news, more trash, because too many Americans are gullible enough to get taken in by it. Did we seriously have Russians organizing Rallies during our US election campaign? How can we expect to have a government for, by and of the American people if we have foreign adversaries campaigning? Is there any way to regulate foreign influence on our elections?

We need new legal tools to oversee the election process, and to rectify compromised elections in the future. Our lawmakers have work to do. If they had any integrity it would be done on a bipartisan basis, and it would be so popular it would be veto-proof.
Click to expand...

You think future elections won't be tampered with? We would never have a government going forward.
 
kudzu said:
Bears repeating.

"Otherwise, Russian bots are going to stir up more hatred, more fake news, more trash, because too many Americans are gullible enough to get taken in by it. Did we seriously have Russians organizing Rallies during our US election campaign? How can we expect to have a government for, by and of the American people if we have foreign adversaries campaigning? Is there any way to regulate foreign influence on our elections?"
Click to expand...

I always like this line because if people vote how we vote then they are smart. If people vote how we don't like them to vote then they are gullible.
 
cawacko said:
I always like this line because if people vote how we vote then they are smart. If people vote how we don't like them to vote then they are gullible.
Click to expand...

Steele had NO way of knowing Trump would win the election.



How could Steele and Orbis know in June 2016 that the Russians were working actively to elect Donald Trump and damage Hillary Clinton? How could Steele and Orbis have known about the Russian overtures to the Trump Team involving derogatory information on Clinton?

We have also subsequently learned of Trump’s long-standing interest in, and experience with Russia and Russians.

A February 2017 New York Times article reported that phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Trump’s campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian officials in the year before the election.

The New York Times article was also corroborated by CNN and Reuters independent reports. And even Russian officials have acknowledged some of these and other repeated contacts.

Although Trump has denied the connections, numerous credible reports suggest that both he and Manafort have long-standing relationships with Russians, and pro-Putin groups.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-exactly-does-steele-dirty-russian-pee-tape-dossier-trump-contain-660327
 
kudzu said:
Steele had NO way of knowing Trump would win the election.



How could Steele and Orbis know in June 2016 that the Russians were working actively to elect Donald Trump and damage Hillary Clinton? How could Steele and Orbis have known about the Russian overtures to the Trump Team involving derogatory information on Clinton?

We have also subsequently learned of Trump’s long-standing interest in, and experience with Russia and Russians.

A February 2017 New York Times article reported that phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Trump’s campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian officials in the year before the election.

The New York Times article was also corroborated by CNN and Reuters independent reports. And even Russian officials have acknowledged some of these and other repeated contacts.

Although Trump has denied the connections, numerous credible reports suggest that both he and Manafort have long-standing relationships with Russians, and pro-Putin groups.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-exactly-does-steele-dirty-russian-pee-tape-dossier-trump-contain-660327
Click to expand...

I was just speaking in general to the use of that line. "Smart" people vote like we do. "Dumb" people don't.
 
cawacko said:
You think future elections won't be tampered with? We would never have a government going forward.
Click to expand...

Hello cawacko,

I think they will most definitely be tampered with. This was not foreseen by the founding fathers. It was not an issue in those times but it is now.

We do have a government and we shall have one going forward. How corrupt will it be? The forefathers set this government up. It falls upon us, 'We The People' living now, to preserve it. Yes, our government faces challenges. We need to address those.

Because our politics have become so polarized, we have become dysfunctional. We should be solving this election integrity issue pronto. Our lawmakers are so partisan they can't get the things done that we need them to.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,

I think they will most definitely be tampered with. This was not foreseen by the founding fathers. It was not an issue in those times but it is now.

We do have a government and we shall have one going forward. How corrupt will it be? The forefathers set this government up. It falls upon us, 'We The People' living now, to preserve it. Yes, our government faces challenges. We need to address those.

Because our politics have become so polarized, we have become dysfunctional. We should be solving this election integrity issue pronto. Our lawmakers are so partisan they can't get the things done that we need them to.
Click to expand...

Foreign nations will continue to try and influence our elections just as we do theirs. I'm not in any way saying it's ok fornithers to mess with our but the reality is it will be tried. And therefore anyone who loses will say it was tampered with and want a new election each time. We will never have a "legitimate" govt again.
 
kudzu said:
Bears repeating.

"Otherwise, Russian bots are going to stir up more hatred, more fake news, more trash, because too many Americans are gullible enough to get taken in by it. Did we seriously have Russians organizing Rallies during our US election campaign? How can we expect to have a government for, by and of the American people if we have foreign adversaries campaigning? Is there any way to regulate foreign influence on our elections?"
Click to expand...

Americans already get taken in by hatred and fake news by Democratic and Republican consultants, party leaders, elected officials, and partisan party identifiers. How do we distinguish the influence of a fake Facebook post or Just Plain Politics post by Americans or foreigners?
 
Flash said:
Americans already get taken in by hatred and fake news by Democratic and Republican consultants, party leaders, elected officials, and partisan party identifiers. How do we distinguish the influence of a fake Facebook post or Just Plain Politics post by Americans or foreigners?
Click to expand...

To take one example, the first report says that Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was responsible for Russia’s compromising materials on Hillary Clinton, and now we have reports that Michael Cohen had contacted Peskov directly in January 2016 seeking help with a Trump business deal in Moscow (after Cohen received the email from Trump business associate Felix Sater saying, “Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putin’s team to buy in on this.”).

http://www.newsweek.com/what-exactly-does-steele-dirty-russian-pee-tape-dossier-trump-contain-660327
 
The report also alleged that the internal Russian intelligence service (FSB) had developed potentially compromising material on Trump, to include details of “perverted sexual acts” which were arranged and monitored by the FSB.

Specifically, the compromising material, according to this entry in the report, included an occasion when Trump hired the presidential suite at a top Moscow hotel which had hosted President and Mrs. Obama, and employed prostitutes to defile the bed where the President had slept.

Four separate sources also described “unorthodox” and embarrassing behavior by Trump over the years that the FSB believed could be used to blackmail the then presidential candidate.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-exactly-does-steele-dirty-russian-pee-tape-dossier-trump-contain-660327

The report stated that Russian President Putin was supportive of the effort to cultivate Trump, and the primary aim was to sow discord and disunity within the U.S. and the West. The dossier of FSB-collected information on Hillary Clinton was managed by Kremlin chief spokesman Dimitry Peskov.
 
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kudzu said:
To take one example, the first report says that Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was responsible for Russia’s compromising materials on Hillary Clinton, and now we have reports that Michael Cohen had contacted Peskov directly in January 2016 seeking help with a Trump business deal in Moscow (after Cohen received the email from Trump business associate Felix Sater saying, “Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putin’s team to buy in on this.”)
Click to expand...

But that information doesn't tell us whether any American voter was influenced by a post from a Russian or an American. If Kudzu has voted Republican for he last 20 years and has multiple anti-Hillary memes on his Facebook page and some were from Russians, did those Russian memes really influence Kudzu or did we know 20 years ago Kudzu would vote Republican in 2016 because he always does to?
 
Flash said:
But that information doesn't tell us whether any American voter was influenced by a post from a Russian or an American. If Kudzu has voted Republican for he last 20 years and has multiple anti-Hillary memes on his Facebook page and some were from Russians, did those Russian memes really influence Kudzu or did we know 20 years ago Kudzu would vote Republican in 2016 because he always does to?
Click to expand...

Did you read the whole link?
 
Flash said:
Americans already get taken in by hatred and fake news by Democratic and Republican consultants, party leaders, elected officials, and partisan party identifiers. How do we distinguish the influence of a fake Facebook post or Just Plain Politics post by Americans or foreigners?
Click to expand...

This is true. Our own politicians lie to us all the time. We send out Democratic and Republican memes that lie as well.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
Foreign nations will continue to try and influence our elections just as we do theirs. I'm not in any way saying it's ok fornithers to mess with our but the reality is it will be tried. And therefore anyone who loses will say it was tampered with and want a new election each time. We will never have a "legitimate" govt again.
Click to expand...

OK, I see what you're saying.

Naturally, any new legislation or Amendment intended to deal with election tampering would have to have checks and balances to prevent every election loser from throwing out the results.
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
Americans already get taken in by hatred and fake news by Democratic and Republican consultants, party leaders, elected officials, and partisan party identifiers. How do we distinguish the influence of a fake Facebook post or Just Plain Politics post by Americans or foreigners?
Click to expand...

Good question. It is essentially left unanswered in the OP because I do not have all the answers. But the question does need to be asked. I am open for suggestions. Just today we are hearing news of more Facebook involvement in election tampering.

"Now the company is facing another embarrassing discovery. A joint investigation by The New York Times and the UK's Observer newspaper found possible violations of Facebook policies by Cambridge Analytica, one of the Trump campaign's data firms. "

Facebook is again having to account for its role in 2016 election
 
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