‘If God is dead, then everything is permitted.’

Yakuda said:
You're very confused. God doesnt determine "winners and losers" and other humans dont determine anyone's worth as a person.
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Humans have a natural right to life and liberty, regardless of human whim or government dictate.


Your question seems to focus on whether natural law descends to us from a transcendant realm, or is natural rights something we aspire to simply by virtue of being human.
 
Yakuda said:
Until consensus says otherwise and if rights are granted by human minds then you have no just cause to oppose slavery if the consensus demand it.

AGAIN I've never claimed God would stop slavery. People compelled by the concept of natural rights did stop it. Thank God. And slavery was wrong even when the consensus said otherwise. You can't claim slavery is wrong you can just claim it's not allowed based on consensus.
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I agree in principle with a natural law that is above the law of man.
African slaves and Gulag prisoners were entitled to life and liberty regardless of what the laws of Stalin and Southern white plantation owners said.

I don't think it is neccessary to tie natural law to God, Brahman, or the Dao. It's possible that natural rights are something we yearn for and aspire to simply by virtue of being human with advanced cognitive powers of reason and imagination.
 
Cypress said:
Humans have a natural right to life and liberty, regardless of human whim or government dictate.


Your question seems to focus on whether natural law descends to us from a transcendant realm, or is natural rights something we aspire to simply by virtue of being human.
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Not according to a lot people

As Aquinas said it's not an either/or prospect but a both/and prospect.
 
Cypress said:
I agree in principle with a natural law that is above the law of man.
African slaves and Gulag prisoners were entitled to life and liberty regardless of what the laws of Stalin and Southern white plantation owners said.

I don't think it is neccessary to tie natural law to God, Brahman, or the Dao. It's possible that natural rights are something we yearn for and aspire to simply by virtue of being human with advanced cognitive powers of reason and imagination.
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Again we yearn for them because we are endowed with them by the "creator" just like the founders said.
 
Yakuda said:
Again we yearn for them because we are endowed with them by the "creator" just like the founders said.
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That's your extrapolation, it's far from an established fact.


Equality, fairness, justice, freedom appeal to the human mind by virtue of our psychology, and you don't neccesarily have to invoke a God to account for it. People are going to feel they are entitled to liberty as a natural right, despite Stalin issuing an edict condemning them to the Gulag. Jews thought they had a natural right to life, no matter what was written in Nazi law.
 
Yakuda said:
You're very confused. God doesnt determine "winners and losers" and other humans dont determine anyone's worth as a person.
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Humans sure as shit do. We still have the death penalty in the USA, don’t we? Those deemed no longer worth living.

Doesn’t your Christian god tell you that you must accept Jesus as your lord and savior or you’re doomed to hell? That’s the qualification for winning and losing, isn’t it? Reward and punishment. Win or lose.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually, you don't.....and I doubt you ever will.....



obviously.....but that wasn't the question, was it.......
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Sure. You don’t hear voices, you merely depend on people that did. Or thought they did.

Not the question? Nope. A response to the moronic, “we were created to do the right thing.” We were born and are alive. Period. Nature has no purpose. It’s neutral. Our own volition is the decision to do the right thing or not. Don’t need a god for that.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
knowing is different from determining......God never doubted you woud be a fuck up, but he didn't make you a fuck up.......
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There you go again, presupposing what a god thinks or knows. Now, the question (again) is, did you hear that little voice in your head telling you something, did someone else that heard those voices tell you, or are you merely making shit up again?
 
BidenPresident said:
The modern form of the philosophical (or meta-ethical) problem of moral realism may be thought to confront a greater test than its predecessors. Its peculiar challenge was famously expressed in Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov: ‘If God is dead, then everything is permitted.’

Among the more influential philosophical doctrines of the twentieth century was logical positivism which claimed that moral statements are essentially meaningless since they are factually uncheckable. Ethical judgements were defined by the leading English proponent of logical positivism, Freddie Ayer (1910-1989), as emotional ejaculations entirely devoid of reason.

https://drb.ie/articles/climbing-mount-improbable/
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You're missing the point of dostoyevsky.

Ultimately he's expressing the wrongheadedness of implementing an atheistic power cult known as marxism.
 
Cypress said:
That's your extrapolation, it's far from an established fact.


Equality, fairness, justice, freedom appeal to the human mind by virtue of our psychology, and you don't neccesarily have to invoke a God to account for it. People are going to feel they are entitled to liberty as a natural right, despite Stalin issuing an edict condemning them to the Gulag. Jews thought they had a natural right to life, no matter what was written in Nazi law.
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I don't think it needs to be an "established fact". We didn't create ourselves and we didn't decide how many legs or eyes or ears we should have just like we didn't decide to yearn for freedom.

You can't invoke chance either or my favorite, "nature".
 
domer76 said:
Humans sure as shit do. We still have the death penalty in the USA, don’t we? Those deemed no longer worth living.

Doesn’t your Christian god tell you that you must accept Jesus as your lord and savior or you’re doomed to hell? That’s the qualification for winning and losing, isn’t it? Reward and punishment. Win or lose.
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I used to be a proponent of the death penalty but not any longer. We do make judgement about the quality of a person's life not their worth as a person. Not the same at all.

Again you're very confused. Scripture is clear see Matt 7:21. The sheep will be separated from the goats based on specific criteria that are choices we each have to make. See Matt 25: 31-46.

No one MUST accept, say or do anything.
 
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