If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[gfm7175]

I know a fair amount about Mormonism, also. When @gfm7175 said that Mormons are Christian, I laughed because they most definitely are not. They will tell you they are, but when your religion claims that a male, who is a sufficiently good Mormon, can become the god of his own planet, You are relinquishing your ability to say you are a Christian religion.

I'll defer to any Mormons as to the specifics of what Mormons believe (and any nuances between specific Mormons themselves).

I'm much more familiar with the various Lutheran church denominations than I am with the Church of Latter Day Saints.

 

[gfm7175]

Right. And?

So, even though nothing changed (according to you), you changed your belief.

 

[ZenMode]

Still sticking with debating religionists...especially Christians.

Okay, I can understand that. America probably is predominantly Christian...and debating them rather than those coming from an agnostic perspective is a smart, albeit, cowardly move.

There's nothing cowardly about it. If your beliefs can't stand up to questions, that's a reflection of your beliefs, not a reflection of the person asking the questions.

Talk to me about your perspective on the REALITY of existence...and tell me if there are any gods...or if it is more likely that there are none rather than that there is at least one.

It would be an interesting conversation.

I have no idea. I don't know why the universe exists or anything exists for that matter. Given that everything around us, in space, is moving in the same direction, it seems reasonable to say some event caused that movement.

I see no reason to believe in any of the gods that man has believed in, except for the sun, moon , etc which are obviously real, even if they aren't "gods".

The idea of a conscious "creator", that occasionally dabbles in our lives is also difficult to believe.

 

[Ross Dolan]

There's nothing cowardly about it. If your beliefs can't stand up to questions, that's a reflection of your beliefs, not a reflection of the person asking the questions.

It is cowardly. You are picking on the low hanging fruit.

Come discuss your position with me. I promise...I will not resort to any gods.

I have no idea.

Yeah, neither do I. But you do make guesses...based on nothing. I'd love to discuss those. But you studiously avoid me and my perspective.

Why?

I don't know why the universe exists or anything exists for that matter. Given that everything around us, in space, is moving in the same direction, it seems reasonable to say some event caused that movement.

Okay...we can discuss that. I have no idea of what caused it...neither, I suspect, does anyone else on the planet.

So...can you contribute to that part of the discussion?

I see no reason to believe in any of the gods that man has believed in, except for the sun, moon , etc which are obviously real, even if they aren't "gods".

I see no reason either. So I don't. I also see no reason to suppose, guess (believe) that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Let's discuss that last part, because it seems you do suppose, guess (believe) one of those things.

Let's just discuss it at length.

The idea of a conscious "creator", that occasionally dabbles in our lives is also difficult to believe.

Indeed...about as difficult as supposing, guessing (believing) that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

LET'S DISCUSS IT. WHY NOT STOP JABBING AT THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT...AND DEAL WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS A SOLID CASE?

C'mon. You will love it.

 

[ZenMode]

It is cowardly. You are picking on the low hanging fruit.

Come discuss your position with me. I promise...I will not resort to any gods.


Yeah, neither do I. But you do make guesses...based on nothing. I'd love to discuss those. But you studiously avoid me and my perspective.

Why?



Okay...we can discuss that. I have no idea of what caused it...neither, I suspect, does anyone else on the planet.

So...can you contribute to that part of the discussion?


I see no reason either. So I don't. I also see no reason to suppose, guess (believe) that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Let's discuss that last part, because it seems you do suppose, guess (believe) one of those things.

Let's just discuss it at length.

Indeed...about as difficult as supposing, guessing (believing) that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

LET'S DISCUSS IT. WHY NOT STOP JABBING AT THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT...AND DEAL WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS A SOLID CASE?

C'mon. You will love it.

I'm skeptical of the "solid case" because, in the bigger scheme of things, anything is possible and most things are equally improbable.

 

[Into the Night]

I’ve always wondered why God only reveals himself to a very limited number of people and why so many of those people are deeply flawed.

Yet you say God never revealed Himself to you, even though you are deeply flawed.

 

[Into the Night]

Myself, Encyclopedia Britannica, and Cambridge University all say there is, and that it's a major pillar of modern physics.

Your personality flaw is a complete aversion to ever admitting you were wrong.

Science is not an encyclopedia, university, or yourself. NONE of them define any word.
There is no such thing as 'Statistical Mechanics'.

 

[Into the Night]

In his mind, he isn't wrong. He creates his own definitions for words,

Inversion fallacy. You can't blame your problem on me or anybody else, Void. You can't blame Cypress's problem on me or anybody else either.

I am not creating buzzwords like you two do.

imagines other words don't exist

There is no such thing as 'Statistical Mechanics'.

and generally creates reality,

Buzzword fallacy. Go learn what 'real' means.

as he needs to, so it makes sense in his mind, which allows him to believe anything he desires.

Random words. No apparent coherency.

 

[Into the Night]

Still sticking with debating religionists...especially Christians.

Okay, I can understand that. America probably is predominantly Christian...and debating them rather than those coming from an agnostic perspective is a smart, albeit, cowardly move.

Talk to me about your perspective on the REALITY of existence...and tell me if there are any gods...or if it is more likely that there are none rather than that there is at least one.

It would be an interesting conversation.

Not really. He doesn't know what 'real' even means. He still has trouble with words like:
real
fact
Christian
religion
science
mathematics
atheism
fundamentalism
agnostic
debate

 

[Into the Night]

I'll defer to any Mormons as to the specifics of what Mormons believe (and any nuances between specific Mormons themselves).

I'm much more familiar with the various Lutheran church denominations than I am with the Church of Latter Day Saints.

The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints (otherwise known as the Mormon church), is a Christian Church. It recognizes God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
It recognizes the King James Bible to be the Word of God, and the most correct translation (as far as it is translated correctly), the Book of Mormon (a partial translation of Plates left by people living here in what is now America (both North and South America) also to be the Word of God for those people, in the the Doctrine and Covenants, the Word of God for people living today, compiled by contemporary prophets of God.

All of these scriptures agree and support each other. Each stands as another testimony of God and Jesus Christ.

It recognizes that God has NOT abandoned Earth, and a living prophet exists today (Dallin Oaks, who also acts as President of the LDS Church). The message is the same: A witness of the power of God and Christ, and the influence the Holy Ghost has upon each of us, if we let it.

It seeks out the good in all things.

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
Nevertheless. death comes to all men. I do not consider that a 'punishment', for Christ's Atonement answers for this, allowing all who are obedient to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel to conquer death just as Christ has done.

First, there must be faith. Without that, nothing further can happen.
Second, there must be the principle of repentance. We can learn from our errors, forgive ourselves, attempt to make right whatever it was we wronged, and seek the forgiveness of Christ, our Lord.
Baptism by immersion is the first of the ordinances, marking membership in the church and your willingness to follow the Gospel.

For the LDS Church, this is where it starts.

 

[Into the Night]

There's nothing cowardly about it. If your beliefs can't stand up to questions, that's a reflection of your beliefs, not a reflection of the person asking the questions.

Your beliefs don't stand up to questions.

I have no idea. I don't know why the universe exists or anything exists for that matter.

That it does is enough. There doesn't need to be a 'why'.

Given that everything around us, in space, is moving in the same direction, it seems reasonable to say some event caused that movement.

Space is not movement. The Universe is unorganized. Nothing is 'moving in the same direction'.

I see no reason to believe in any of the gods that man has believed in, except for the sun, moon , etc which are obviously real, even if they aren't "gods".

More that you simply choose to ignore evidence that has already been shown to you.

How do you know the Sun is 'real'? What makes it 'real' to you?
How do you know the Moon is 'real'? What makes it 'real' to you?
How do you know neither the Sun or the Moon is not a god?

The idea of a conscious "creator", that occasionally dabbles in our lives is also difficult to believe.

So you believe in the Theory of Abiogenesis, which states that life arrived on Earth through a series of unspecified random events. Am I correct?

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

I’ve always wondered why God only reveals himself to a very limited number of people and why so many of those people are deeply flawed.

god's not a flasher, sicko.

 

[Into the Night]

I'm skeptical of the "solid case" because, in the bigger scheme of things, anything is possible and most things are equally improbable.

Math error: Failure to specify boundary. Failure to specify randX.

To learn probability mathematics.

 

[Into the Night]

It is cowardly. You are picking on the low hanging fruit.

Come discuss your position with me. I promise...I will not resort to any gods.


Yeah, neither do I. But you do make guesses...based on nothing. I'd love to discuss those. But you studiously avoid me and my perspective.

Why?



Okay...we can discuss that. I have no idea of what caused it...neither, I suspect, does anyone else on the planet.

So...can you contribute to that part of the discussion?


I see no reason either. So I don't. I also see no reason to suppose, guess (believe) that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Let's discuss that last part, because it seems you do suppose, guess (believe) one of those things.

Let's just discuss it at length.

Indeed...about as difficult as supposing, guessing (believing) that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

LET'S DISCUSS IT. WHY NOT STOP JABBING AT THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT...AND DEAL WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS A SOLID CASE?

C'mon. You will love it.

Good luck! He's a fundamentalist!

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints (otherwise known as the Mormon church), is a Christian Church. It recognizes God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
It recognizes the King James Bible to be the Word of God, and the most correct translation (as far as it is translated correctly), the Book of Mormon (a partial translation of Plates left by people living here in what is now America (both North and South America) also to be the Word of God for those people, in the the Doctrine and Covenants, the Word of God for people living today, compiled by contemporary prophets of God.

All of these scriptures agree and support each other. Each stands as another testimony of God and Jesus Christ.

It recognizes that God has NOT abandoned Earth, and a living prophet exists today (Dallin Oaks, who also acts as President of the LDS Church). The message is the same: A witness of the power of God and Christ, and the influence the Holy Ghost has upon each of us, if we let it.

It seeks out the good in all things.

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
Nevertheless. death comes to all men. I do not consider that a 'punishment', for Christ's Atonement answers for this, allowing all who are obedient to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel to conquer death just as Christ has done.

First, there must be faith. Without that, nothing further can happen.
Second, there must be the principle of repentance. We can learn from our errors, forgive ourselves, attempt to make right whatever it was we wronged, and seek the forgiveness of Christ, our Lord.
Baptism by immersion is the first of the ordinances, marking membership in the church and your willingness to follow the Gospel.

For the LDS Church, this is where it starts.

that show 'good love' with bill Paxton was awesome.

r.i.p. bill Paxton.

 

[Into the Night]

that show 'good love' with bill Paxton was awesome.

r.i.p. bill Paxton.

YARP

 

[ZenMode]

Space is not movement. The Universe is unorganized. Nothing is 'moving in the same direction'.

I didn't say space was movement....which you already knew, but insist on playing dumb word games.

Nice work, "science guy"

 

[ZenMode]

How do you know the Sun is 'real'? What makes it 'real' to you?

I see it. I see the impact it has on Earth.

How do you know the Moon is 'real'? What makes it 'real' to you?

I see it. I've seen people land on it...walk on it.

How do you know neither the Sun or the Moon is not a god?

For starters, there's no reason to believe the sun or moon is conscious.

 

[ZenMode]

Math error: Failure to specify boundary. Failure to specify randX.

To learn probability mathematics.

Incoherent babbling.