If you’re liberal, can’t stand Trump and fathom why people will vote for him - this i

[gfm7175]

Am I reading this right?

No, you are not.

You want the media to be controlled or silenced (by the government?) unless they say the right things.

Not at all. They have every right to say the shit that they say. However, I also have every right to call them out for the lying Satanic fucks that they are.

I assume this doesn't apply to the Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Fox News, and the like -

Not all of the media are lying Satanic fucks. Much of the media are, though.

it's just the ones you really disagree with that are Satanic,

It has nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with what they are saying, but rather the honesty/integrity of any particular media outlet.

and you see correcting this as an important part of making America great again.

I see Americans making the choice to hold such lying Satanic fucks accountable for their Satanic fuckery as part of making America great again...

Can we look forward to Trump undertaking this historic task if he wins another term in office?

He's already been holding the media accountable for their Satanic fuckery since Day 1 of his primary campaign...

 

[StoneByStone]

As much as you say that the right is more emotional, I see a lot more emotions coming from the left on most topics. And even you concede that the left's take on immigration is largely driven by emotion.

All establishment politics is feels over reals when it comes to racial issues. And of course that's not good, but it's understandable, considering how much anti-white propaganda we get every day.

But put racial politics aside and the Left takes the logical side on every issue, while the Right takes the emotional side. There's also just how these people act. Right now the face of the Left is Bernie, the face of the Right is Trump. Who would you say acts more logical? Who acts like an angry child who can't stop sperging out?

 

[Into the Night]

Trump supporters want fascism and a dictator. I know.

Inversion fallacy. Fascism is a form of socialism. It is what the Democrats want.

 

[CFM]

Trump supporters want fascism and a dictator. I know.

What you did is show how little you know.

When you voted Obama because you thought skin color was a qualification, you also proved how little you knew.

 

[Saudade]

All establishment politics is feels over reals when it comes to racial issues. And of course that's not good, but it's understandable, considering how much anti-white propaganda we get every day.

But put racial politics aside and the Left takes the logical side on every issue, while the Right takes the emotional side. There's also just how these people act. Right now the face of the Left is Bernie, the face of the Right is Trump. Who would you say acts more logical? Who acts like an angry child who can't stop sperging out?

Trump is emotional, I'll give you that, but I don't see much difference in that aspect between him and the AOC wing of the Dems. And we can't really "put racial politics aside" when we continually have these protests and riots coming from the left. That's as emotional as it gets.

But even if we go with what you're saying here, how is it "logical" to heavily restrict gun rights? The only logic behind that is to make people more vulnerable to an oppressive state. Sure, a lot of the world has unfortunately fallen for the "logic" that it somehow makes them safer to be unarmed, but the reality of the matter is that violence isn't driven by gun ownership. It's driven by cultural issues and mental health issues.

It's also hard to separate much of progressive policy from racial politics when considering that most proposals to expand social services or welfare policies usually have some racial argument regarding equality or equity. It's like how most of the police reform discussion has become racial. Yet, pretty much all of these arguments are based on emotion and lies.

Disparities in income and achievement come down to cultural values, aptitudes, and sometimes even genetics. Government isn't going to change any of that, unless we reach Gattaca levels of technology and implement social conditioning to the point of a police state.

By the same token, police don't actually target black people disproportionately with violence, when you adjust for the behavior of suspects and what a suspect is being investigated for. Multiple studies have shown this.

Feminism has a similar problem of pushing narratives that are based on emotion and false narratives. There is no significant gender pay gap, for example, when you adjust for all other factors beyond sex. If anything, there will more likely be a situation where women will be paid more than men on average in the future due to current trends regarding rising female enrollment in higher education and falling enrollment among males.

 

[StoneByStone]

Trump is emotional, I'll give you that, but I don't see much difference in that aspect between him and the AOC wing of the Dems. And we can't really "put racial politics aside" when we continually have these protests and riots coming from the left. That's as emotional as it gets.

First of all, AOC isn't the face of the Left, Bernie is. Secondly... come on... AOC isn't a fraction as bad as Trump. Sure, some of her policies aren't well thought out, but she doesn't sperg out constantly like Trump. She doesn't throw a tantrum and insult anyone the moment someone

As for the rioting, most of those people aren't Leftists. Most of those people are apolitical Blacks who believe they're living under White Supremacy. These are the people who only voted for Obama because he's black and couldn't tell you anything about other issues.
The riots have had some actual Leftists, but they've also had Fascists and cops trying to stir up trouble. This is why I don't care about the fringe. I care about the faces of movements, because that lets you know where a movement is. Trump represents the Right, Biden represents the Center, and Bernie represents the Left. Only the first guy is literally insane.

But even if we go with what you're saying here, how is it "logical" to heavily restrict gun rights? The only logic behind that is to make people more vulnerable to an oppressive state. Sure, a lot of the world has unfortunately fallen for the "logic" that it somehow makes them safer to be unarmed, but the reality of the matter is that violence isn't driven by gun ownership. It's driven by cultural issues and mental health issues.

There's no evidence that stricter gun control makes people more vulnerable to Authoritarianism. Look how much closer America is to Authoritarianism right now when compared to Europe, Canada, and Australia.

It's also hard to separate much of progressive policy from racial politics when considering that most proposals to expand social services or welfare policies usually have some racial argument regarding equality or equity. It's like how most of the police reform discussion has become racial. Yet, pretty much all of these arguments are based on emotion and lies.

Same goes for racial politics on the Right. Anti-white politics are completely illogical all across the establishment. But again, I have some sympathy for people who buy into it because ever since birth, we're bombarded with anti-white propaganda. It's a lot harder to give a pass to people who believe in Qanon.

Disparities in income and achievement come down to cultural values, aptitudes, and sometimes even genetics. Government isn't going to change any of that, unless we reach Gattaca levels of technology and implement social conditioning to the point of a police state.

You don't believe classism plays a major role in achievement?

One of the things I do like about Trump is he's exposed just how bad classism is. This is a guy who is literally mentally challenged, but became rich because of his father. He failed at virtually everything he ever did and his father bailed him out over and over and over. After his father died, he remained rich because we have a system that allows the rich to get away with breaking laws and going into massive dept.

Now compare his life to a kid born in the ghetto to poor parents who couldn't even afford healthcare. That kid would have to play by entirely different rules.
It's basically this comic come to life: https://9gag.com/gag/aPD9x7K

Feminism has a similar problem of pushing narratives that are based on emotion and false narratives. There is no significant gender pay gap, for example, when you adjust for all other factors beyond sex. If anything, there will more likely be a situation where women will be paid more than men on average in the future due to current trends regarding rising female enrollment in higher education and falling enrollment among males.

So while that's true, I think it's understandable to make this mistake. We do have sexism in lots of traditionally male fields, so to see the wage gap at face value, it's understandable to assume women aren't being paid the same for the same work.

Now compare this to something like Conservatives sperging out over girls being allowed in the Boy Scouts. There is no logic there, it's pure feels over reals. When the Left gets something wrong, there's still logic there, there's just a lack of information. When the Right gets something wrong, it usually boils down to "this thing is different and I don't like change."

 

[Saudade]

First of all, AOC isn't the face of the Left, Bernie is. Secondly... come on... AOC isn't a fraction as bad as Trump. Sure, some of her policies aren't well thought out, but she doesn't sperg out constantly like Trump. She doesn't throw a tantrum and insult anyone the moment someone

As for the rioting, most of those people aren't Leftists. Most of those people are apolitical Blacks who believe they're living under White Supremacy. These are the people who only voted for Obama because he's black and couldn't tell you anything about other issues.
The riots have had some actual Leftists, but they've also had Fascists and cops trying to stir up trouble. This is why I don't care about the fringe. I care about the faces of movements, because that lets you know where a movement is. Trump represents the Right, Biden represents the Center, and Bernie represents the Left. Only the first guy is literally insane.

Here we go again. "They aren't actual leftists." Are we going to go with "that wasn't real socialism" as well?

There's no evidence that stricter gun control makes people more vulnerable to Authoritarianism. Look how much closer America is to Authoritarianism right now when compared to Europe, Canada, and Australia.

We define authoritarianism very differently then. We have much freer speech here, for starters. There isn't another country that is freer when it comes to general civil liberties than America. Granted, the left may change that soon.

You don't believe classism plays a major role in achievement?

Not really.

One of the things I do like about Trump is he's exposed just how bad classism is. This is a guy who is literally mentally challenged, but became rich because of his father. He failed at virtually everything he ever did and his father bailed him out over and over and over. After his father died, he remained rich because we have a system that allows the rich to get away with breaking laws and going into massive dept.

Now compare his life to a kid born in the ghetto to poor parents who couldn't even afford healthcare. That kid would have to play by entirely different rules.
It's basically this comic come to life: https://9gag.com/gag/aPD9x7K

You're free to believe all that, but it's not reality. Western culture in general likes to play the classism game, but a lot of the world outside of the West knows life isn't really about that. It will eventually be the West's undoing.

So while that's true, I think it's understandable to make this mistake. We do have sexism in lots of traditionally male fields, so to see the wage gap at face value, it's understandable to assume women aren't being paid the same for the same work.

The only sexism in most fields is that women get promoted faster for the sake of meeting quotas. This happens all the time in the police.

Now compare this to something like Conservatives sperging out over girls being allowed in the Boy Scouts. There is no logic there, it's pure feels over reals. When the Left gets something wrong, there's still logic there, there's just a lack of information. When the Right gets something wrong, it usually boils down to "this thing is different and I don't like change."

Actually, there's a logical reason to dislike letting girls enter the Boy Scouts. It hurts the Girl Scouts and girls in general. https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi.../boy-scouts-membership-hurts-girls/579558002/

 

[Truth Detector]

Am I reading this right? You want the media to be controlled or silenced (by the government?) unless they say the right things.

Wrong again. I don't think you can post without looking like a lying dumbass.

We want the media to stop the lie filled propaganda and start acting like fact checking journalists again. In the Fascistic left where you wallow, that is asking too much.

 

[Truth Detector]

I'm a thread trolling dumbass who cannot deal with one young girl.

So true. Although I had to correct some of your mistakes to make it factual. Try to be less stupid and dishonest.

 

[Truth Detector]

Maybe at churches. But the thing with those church girls is that they are pretty liberal in bed.

I wish you could be less pathetic, stupid and dishonest. But being a low IQ thread trolling dumbass, this is what we have come to expect from you.

 

[StoneByStone]

Here we go again. "They aren't actual leftists." Are we going to go with "that wasn't real socialism" as well?

Can you really call them Leftists if they only care about one issue? We don't even know if they believe in Democracy. They could be black Fashies for all we know.

We define authoritarianism very differently then. We have much freer speech here, for starters. There isn't another country that is freer when it comes to general civil liberties than America. Granted, the left may change that soon.

Oh no, I'm not saying we have Authoritarianism now. I'm saying we're closer to having it than Europe, Canada, or Australia.

And no, the Left isn't calling to ban speech. Only Trump did that recently and the Right still supports him because Conservatism is consumer-friendly Fascism.

You're free to believe all that, but it's not reality. Western culture in general likes to play the classism game, but a lot of the world outside of the West knows life isn't really about that. It will eventually be the West's undoing.

So in that comic I posted, you'd say both children had an equal shot at success? The kid with the really successful parents didn't have any advantages that the kid born into poverty didn't have?

The only sexism in most fields is that women get promoted faster for the sake of meeting quotas. This happens all the time in the police.

There's also cultural sexism. Women aren't taken seriously in traditional male fields. Even the real reason for the wage gap reflects sexism and gender roles still being common in society.
I don't think that excuses quotas, but it is an issue that makes it understandable to believing in falsehoods about the wage gap.

Actually, there's a logical reason to dislike letting girls enter the Boy Scouts. It hurts the Girl Scouts and girls in general. https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi.../boy-scouts-membership-hurts-girls/579558002/

It's saying I have to sign up. Can you give me some bullet points on this?

 

[Saudade]

Can you really call them Leftists if they only care about one issue? We don't even know if they believe in Democracy. They could be black Fashies for all we know.

Oh no, I'm not saying we have Authoritarianism now. I'm saying we're closer to having it than Europe, Canada, or Australia.

And no, the Left isn't calling to ban speech. Only Trump did that recently and the Right still supports him because Conservatism is consumer-friendly Fascism.

Yes, let's just call everything fascism. This is getting really tiresome.

So in that comic I posted, you'd say both children had an equal shot at success? The kid with the really successful parents didn't have any advantages that the kid born into poverty didn't have?

I'm saying it doesn't matter. Every society has rich and poor. Even the most socialistic countries have elites. No government is going to change that, so people should focus more on making better decisions on a personal level.

For example, if you're poor, you probably shouldn't have kids. Raising a child should only be done when you're financially secure.

There's also cultural sexism. Women aren't taken seriously in traditional male fields. Even the real reason for the wage gap reflects sexism and gender roles still being common in society.
I don't think that excuses quotas, but it is an issue that makes it understandable to believing in falsehoods about the wage gap.

That's no different from the false racial narratives that you at least realize are false. When you say "traditional male fields", what do you mean? All the stats I've seen show women advancing in any field they enter.

Now, there are certainly some traditional male jobs that I don't see many women being -- like auto mechanics, sanitation workers, plumbers, electricians, construction workers, sewer workers, lumberjacks, etc. There are numerous blue collar fields that women aren't typically advancing in, but that's due to how few of them actually pursue those jobs. When it comes to white collar jobs, where is the evidence that they aren't being taken seriously?

It's saying I have to sign up. Can you give me some bullet points on this?

"There are very few girl-only spaces today. Girl Scouts is one. All-girl high schools is another. I am fortunate to have had the benefit of both.

How did I benefit? In that all-girl environment, I had every opportunity to speak and be heard, and take on any and all roles and challenges. This helped shape me into a competent and confident woman with the firm belief that I could be anything I wanted to be.

The research bears me out.

Recently I heard Dr. JoAnn Deak, an educator, psychologist and author, speak. She confirmed that the research shows enough time spent in a single-sex environment builds girls’ self-esteem, leadership and achievement. Dr. Deak went on to say the research demonstrated that the presence of boys has a suppressive effect on girls.

While women’s participation in the workforce, higher education and athletics has increased, there remains strong gender stereotypes and bias in our society regarding traits, social roles, occupations and appearance. These continue to impact girls’ choices and how society treats them.

5 things Girl Scouts offers to girls
Girls need a safe, supportive space where:

- They can be themselves and build their confidence.
- Being female is seen as positive, with inherent strengths.
- Girls learn to support and trust their female peers.
- Girls’ abilities and career aspirations are affirmed, especially in STEM.
- Girls’ voices, girls’ perspectives and girls’ way of doing things are honored.

This is what Girl Scouts offers to girls. Girls are first and given every opportunity. Girl Scouts are trailblazers, not tagalongs. And Girl Scouts is accessible to all girls.

While Boy Scouts talk about convenience for the family, a daughter is not a matter of convenience. Girls who join Boy Scouts will have to fight for themselves in a very traditional, male-dominated space, just as they do every day in our society. They will be reduced to being 'girls in a boys’ troop.'"

I thought the above were some pretty good points by the columnist. I disagree with her assessment on societal biases, but the rest made sense.

 

[StoneByStone]

Yes, let's just call everything fascism. This is getting really tiresome.

Trump said we should ban burning the flag. He's tried cheating in two elections and is now trying to cheat again.
At what point can we call him a Fascist? He's against freedom of speech and democratic elections.

I'm saying it doesn't matter. Every society has rich and poor. Even the most socialistic countries have elites. No government is going to change that, so people should focus more on making better decisions on a personal level.

But welfare policies, like in other western countries, have reduced the gap between rich and poor, thus creating a more level playing field.
And that's really all the Left wants. Nobody wants this fictional communist society of the Right where everyone has the same amount of money.

For example, if you're poor, you probably shouldn't have kids. Raising a child should only be done when you're financially secure.

Sure, but the point is, if a poor person does have kids, those kids grow up very disadvantaged. That's classism.

That's no different from the false racial narratives that you at least realize are false. When you say "traditional male fields", what do you mean? All the stats I've seen show women advancing in any field they enter.

Fields that women have traditionally been discouraged or outright banned from joining. There's tons of sexism in fields like law. Female lawyers are seen as weak and if they're too tough, they're seen as bitchy.

- They can be themselves and build their confidence.
- Being female is seen as positive, with inherent strengths.
- Girls learn to support and trust their female peers.
- Girls’ abilities and career aspirations are affirmed, especially in STEM.
- Girls’ voices, girls’ perspectives and girls’ way of doing things are honored.[/I]

The reason these things are even an issue is because of sexism. And the reason we still have sexism is because of things like having Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Notice how the Boy Scouts is about surviving in the woods while the Girl Scouts are about selling cookies. Things like this reinforce gender stereotypes, which is why girls need all-female areas to feel like our voices matter. I say get rid of the gender roles bullshit, let us do away with male spaces and female spaces.

 

[Saudade]

Trump said we should ban burning the flag. He's tried cheating in two elections and is now trying to cheat again.
At what point can we call him a Fascist? He's against freedom of speech and democratic elections.

No cheating has been proven, and you're going to have to cite the flag claim.

But welfare policies, like in other western countries, have reduced the gap between rich and poor, thus creating a more level playing field.
And that's really all the Left wants. Nobody wants this fictional communist society of the Right where everyone has the same amount of money.

The left may not claim to want that, but what's the end result when every disparity is chalked up to "systemic bias"? You see the same claims being made by the left everywhere from the US to even the most socialistic parts of Europe. There clearly is no end point for this goal other than everyone having the same amount of money. It's no different from the claims about sexism.

Sure, but the point is, if a poor person does have kids, those kids grow up very disadvantaged. That's classism.

That's on the parents, not society, to deal with.

Fields that women have traditionally been discouraged or outright banned from joining. There's tons of sexism in fields like law. Female lawyers are seen as weak and if they're too tough, they're seen as bitchy.

Ok, so just like with racism, when does it end? At what point can we stop falling back on past ills and accept that the current situation has to do with personal decisions rather than some ambiguous "systemic bias"?

The reason these things are even an issue is because of sexism. And the reason we still have sexism is because of things like having Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Notice how the Boy Scouts is about surviving in the woods while the Girl Scouts are about selling cookies. Things like this reinforce gender stereotypes, which is why girls need all-female areas to feel like our voices matter. I say get rid of the gender roles bullshit, let us do away with male spaces and female spaces.

You know what? I actually agree with the last part. And when men dominate nearly every sport, feminists will have no right to complain. When a lot more rape happens in universal prisons, we can say, "I told you so."

Of course, I seriously doubt you're going to see many women enter various blue collar jobs. There are plenty of those that are male dominated due to a lack of interest by women, just like how women will still dominate the nursing field.

Either way, some gender roles are genetic, but if it takes removing any cultural connections to gender roles for feminists and the left to see that, then I'm ok with that.

 

[StoneByStone]

No cheating has been proven, and you're going to have to cite the flag claim.

It was proven that Trump colluded with Russia. And if you think there isn't enough evidence for that, then there's the Ukraine scandal, which is probably the most clear case of corruption in American history. I don't even discuss this one anymore, because at this point, if you reject the mountain of evidence that Trump tried to cheat, you're probably arguing in bad faith.
Though I will say that Trump tried to hide the recording, then refused to release the full transcript. So even Trump knows what he did was wrong.

The left may not claim to want that, but what's the end result when every disparity is chalked up to "systemic bias"? You see the same claims being made by the left everywhere from the US to even the most socialistic parts of Europe. There clearly is no end point for this goal other than everyone having the same amount of money. It's no different from the claims about sexism.

If that was true, then commie parties would be doing much better in Europe. But there is no major movement to abolish private property or force everyone to make the same amount of money. It's just a scare tactic the rich use to keep people poor.

That's on the parents, not society, to deal with.

So if a parent beats and starves their children, the state shouldn't do something?

And either way, this is still proof of classism. If poor parents decide to have kids, and that creates disadvantaged kids, then we have classism.

Ok, so just like with racism, when does it end? At what point can we stop falling back on past ills and accept that the current situation has to do with personal decisions rather than some ambiguous "systemic bias"?

Maybe after we've actually started trying to fix this. We've pretty much just started talking about intersectionality and cultural sexism, as opposed to legal sexism. We haven't even been talking about rape culture for that long. It seems like the very moment we become aware of something bad, the Right demands we stop talking about it already.

You know what? I actually agree with the last part. And when men dominate nearly every sport, feminists will have no right to complain. When a lot more rape happens in universal prisons, we can say, "I told you so."

Of course, I seriously doubt you're going to see many women enter various blue collar jobs. There are plenty of those that are male dominated due to a lack of interest by women, just like how women will still dominate the nursing field.

Either way, some gender roles are genetic, but if it takes removing any cultural connections to gender roles for feminists and the left to see that, then I'm ok with that.

Things like division in physical sports make sense for biological reasons. But dividing the scouts into boys and girls really makes no sense and is just a reflection of gender roles. I'm not saying we should pretend gender doesn't exist. I'm saying we should stop assigning things to people based on gender for no reason other than tradition.

See this is what I mean when I say we just started talking about cultural sexism. Yeah, men dominate in blue collar work, women dominate in nursing. But society literally just started realizing that the boy/girl scouts are conditioning children to think this way. How can we say this is genetic or that it's not the result of sexism when we haven't even tried to reduce the enforcement of gender rules?

 

[Saudade]

It was proven that Trump colluded with Russia. And if you think there isn't enough evidence for that, then there's the Ukraine scandal, which is probably the most clear case of corruption in American history. I don't even discuss this one anymore, because at this point, if you reject the mountain of evidence that Trump tried to cheat, you're probably arguing in bad faith.
Though I will say that Trump tried to hide the recording, then refused to release the full transcript. So even Trump knows what he did was wrong.

And if all that's true, why isn't he being prosecuted?

If that was true, then commie parties would be doing much better in Europe. But there is no major movement to abolish private property or force everyone to make the same amount of money. It's just a scare tactic the rich use to keep people poor.

It's because a lot of these people don't seem to realize what they're aiming for. I don't think most of the left even realizes how they've tilted things. And frankly, commie parties do poorly because, when these ideas are taken to their logical limit, they do look pretty bad. Commies are just more honest versions of leftists.

So if a parent beats and starves their children, the state shouldn't do something?

And either way, this is still proof of classism. If poor parents decide to have kids, and that creates disadvantaged kids, then we have classism.

If you're suggesting that CPS should get more involved in poor households, I'm ok with that. I have more faith in the state raising children than in some parents.

But again, if you're saying that any presence of poverty among children is classism, then how exactly do you solve that issue? I'm assuming you're arguing that we should end all classism, but the only way you can get rid of all poverty is by flattening incomes across society, which goes back to the point about equalizing wealth.

Otherwise, we have to agree that some level of classism is acceptable.

Maybe after we've actually started trying to fix this. We've pretty much just started talking about intersectionality and cultural sexism, as opposed to legal sexism. We haven't even been talking about rape culture for that long. It seems like the very moment we become aware of something bad, the Right demands we stop talking about it already.

We're becoming aware that the left is obsessed with victimhood. That is one of the biggest curses of the West in general, and it's part of why I'm losing faith in the West overall. This was a nice experiment, but it looks like Western culture is reaching an accelerating state of decay.

Things like division in physical sports make sense for biological reasons. But dividing the scouts into boys and girls really makes no sense and is just a reflection of gender roles. I'm not saying we should pretend gender doesn't exist. I'm saying we should stop assigning things to people based on gender for no reason other than tradition.

See this is what I mean when I say we just started talking about cultural sexism. Yeah, men dominate in blue collar work, women dominate in nursing. But society literally just started realizing that the boy/girl scouts are conditioning children to think this way. How can we say this is genetic or that it's not the result of sexism when we haven't even tried to reduce the enforcement of gender rules?

Well again, I'm fine with reducing these things, but it's going to get very ugly very fast.

 

[StoneByStone]

And if all that's true, why isn't he being prosecuted?

Because 90% of the Republicans are Fascists who will defend Trump no matter what he does. That's why they voted to keep him in office when he was impeached.
It's also why they don't condemn him for calling on China to investigate Biden, calling on his supporters to commit voter fraud, constantly lying about mail-in voting, or calling on the Proud Boys to commit voter intimidation.

Yes, accusations of Fascism get thrown around too often. But how many more things must Trump and his army of Trumpcucks do before we accept that this is Fascism or at least a form Authoritarianism?

It's because a lot of these people don't seem to realize what they're aiming for. I don't think most of the left even realizes how they've tilted things. And frankly, commie parties do poorly because, when these ideas are taken to their logical limit, they do look pretty bad. Commies are just more honest versions of leftists.

Well if that's the case, then that means very few Leftists want Communism.

If you're suggesting that CPS should get more involved in poor households, I'm ok with that. I have more faith in the state raising children than in some parents.

So then we agree. Society should try to help children.

But again, if you're saying that any presence of poverty among children is classism, then how exactly do you solve that issue? I'm assuming you're arguing that we should end all classism, but the only way you can get rid of all poverty is by flattening incomes across society, which goes back to the point about equalizing wealth.

Otherwise, we have to agree that some level of classism is acceptable.

Sure, I agree some level of classism is acceptable. However, the gap between rich and poor in modern America is beyond not acceptable. No family where at least one adult is working should have to die because they can't afford healthcare.

As for how to solve it, make healthcare free and give everyone UBI. We'd still have classes, we'd still have a 1%, but the working-class would be living at a first world standard. And the 1% would be a lot less powerful.

We're becoming aware that the left is obsessed with victimhood. That is one of the biggest curses of the West in general, and it's part of why I'm losing faith in the West overall. This was a nice experiment, but it looks like Western culture is reaching an accelerating state of decay.

Is it that we're obsessed with victimhood or is it that we actually do have large amounts of classism and sexism in the West? Western Civilization has always been about equality before the law and having a playing field that is at least pretty fair. It's also been about improving our countries any way we can.
What you're seeing isn't the decay of the West, it's simply a continuation of what we've always done. I'm sure the Protestants who were against letting JFK become president were complaining about how enough is enough. We already let Irish Catholics into the country, then we let them into Protestant neighborhoods, what more do these people want?! Catholics are obsessed with victimhood! But no, this was just the West fighting against religious discrimination, as we always have.

Well again, I'm fine with reducing these things, but it's going to get very ugly very fast.

Only for Incels who can't stand seeing Captain Marvel and Black Widow get their own movies. The rest of us are cool with this.

 

[CFM]

It appears as if TacomaBOY is having black ass kissing withdrawal.

 

[Saudade]

Because 90% of the Republicans are Fascists who will defend Trump no matter what he does. That's why they voted to keep him in office when he was impeached.
It's also why they don't condemn him for calling on China to investigate Biden, calling on his supporters to commit voter fraud, constantly lying about mail-in voting, or calling on the Proud Boys to commit voter intimidation.

Yes, accusations of Fascism get thrown around too often. But how many more things must Trump and his army of Trumpcucks do before we accept that this is Fascism or at least a form Authoritarianism?

You're actually capable of decent discussions until the topic of Trump comes up. Unfortunately, you go full TDS at the mention of his name. It reminds me of the same thing people did with Bush.

Well if that's the case, then that means very few Leftists want Communism.

If they understood what their aims eventually lead to, yes.

So then we agree. Society should try to help children.

To an extent.

Sure, I agree some level of classism is acceptable. However, the gap between rich and poor in modern America is beyond not acceptable. No family where at least one adult is working should have to die because they can't afford healthcare.

As for how to solve it, make healthcare free and give everyone UBI. We'd still have classes, we'd still have a 1%, but the working-class would be living at a first world standard. And the 1% would be a lot less powerful.

I'm fine with UBI if that means ending all other welfare payments.

Is it that we're obsessed with victimhood or is it that we actually do have large amounts of classism and sexism in the West? Western Civilization has always been about equality before the law and having a playing field that is at least pretty fair. It's also been about improving our countries any way we can.
What you're seeing isn't the decay of the West, it's simply a continuation of what we've always done. I'm sure the Protestants who were against letting JFK become president were complaining about how enough is enough. We already let Irish Catholics into the country, then we let them into Protestant neighborhoods, what more do these people want?! Catholics are obsessed with victimhood! But no, this was just the West fighting against religious discrimination, as we always have.

The bolded is the problem. Classism and sexism are considerably less prominent here than in most of the world, but given the left's lack of perspective, no amount of "social justice" is adequate. Eventually, it goes from being equality to tribalism.

A cultural basis that has stood the test of time far longer than the Enlightenment is Confucianism. The same could be said for many other non-Western cultures. Instead of rejecting social roles, they understand that these structures are important for societal stability.

 

[AProudLefty]

Is Truth Deflector in a mental hospital already?